Tree Felling Technique Thread

[Dustin4185]

@Drptrch My technician just finished S212 through the USFS in east TN. They told him in no way should they use a Humboldt cut. Is this a regional thing or USFS thing?

I am also just a hack and have picked up some valuable techniques from loggers and USFS. The biggest difference I have found between the two is loggers don’t want to screw up the butt log and the USFS guys want to make the safest cut possible.

I bore cut some, but usually don’t worry about fiber pull so I use a conventional method.

 

[beaglebriar]

Basically I just borin and try to keep the saw in the safe side of the tree! Those were on a Rocky slope so I guess borin on the low side and cut the tree all off but leave the outside edges holding! Van bore down to my cut on the outside edges but I always leave the last Edge holding opposite of the way the trees going to fall! I will try to post someone I'm on flat ground again on how I leave the points and you just always cut the last Point that's holding up the tree!

So if you need to lift it, rather than wedge you just pull it with the skidder probably.

It's all about using the tools you have available I'm sure.

 

[Cat 525]

No reason to lift it usually. The points should hold it up. But we do have wedges that get used and a winch and grappleon the skidder! Stuff is always happening! Sometimes topping can be the worst!

 

[XP_Slinger]

@Drptrch My technician just finished S212 through the USFS in east TN. They told him in no way should they use a Humboldt cut. Is this a regional thing or USFS thing?

I am also just a hack and have picked up some valuable techniques from loggers and USFS. The biggest difference I have found between the two is loggers don’t want to screw up the butt log and the USFS guys want to make the safest cut possible.

I bore cut some, but usually don’t worry about fiber pull so I use a conventional method.

You nailed it. What I think I’ve learned is Hardwood Timber cutters going after value typically don’t like it on hard wood because the humbolt acts as a lever that pulls the fibers before they break from the angle of the tree falling. I suppose one could improve upon fiber pull by cutting a steeper angle on the bottom of the face cut or use a snipe. Another draw back for hardwood is the stump has to be taller to give room for your undercut. Less root flare on most hardwoods than western timber so more waste on the butt log.

I’ve used a humbolt for years cutting firewood because I like the safety aspect, the stump becomes a barrier that kicks the tree away from you if it’s properly set up. I’ve only switched to a different method for producing better saw logs. I will still be using a humbolt for firewood trees.

 

[Dustin4185]

You nailed it. Hardwood Timber cutters going after value typically don’t like it on hard wood because the humbolt acts as a lever that pulls the fibers before they break from the angle of the tree falling. I suppose one could improve upon fiber pull buy cutting a steeper angle on the bottom of the face cut or use a snipe. Another draw back for hardwood is the stump has to be taller to give room for your undercut. Less root flare on most hardwoods than western timber so more waste on the butt log.

I’ve used a humbolt for years cutting firewood because I like the safety aspect, the stump becomes a barrier that kicks the tree away from you if it’s properly set up. I’ve only switched temporarily for cutting saw logs. Will likely still use a humbolt for firewood trees.

That’s why I can’t figure out why they are against it in their situation. Usually the guys that are 212 certified are either 1) clearing fire lines or 2) cutting trees on forest service land (danger trees, right of ways, etc). You would think having that stump shot would be safer. They also didn’t like the open face cut. I use it because the hinge usually stays intact most of the way to the ground.

I am scheduled to go next time they have one, so we shall see. We are trying to get everyone certified for FEMA cleanup details if needed and for CYA for the agency. Believe it or not, we have had ZERO training in the past on chainsaw safety and use. A tool we use weekly, if not daily on a WMA. I got the ball started on this end of the state, but wanted my technicians that are on the ground to get certified first.

 

[XP_Slinger]

That’s why I can’t figure out why they are against it in their situation. Usually the guys that are 212 certified are either 1) clearing fire lines or 2) cutting trees on forest service land (danger trees, right of ways, etc). You would think having that stump shot would be safer. They also didn’t like the open face cut. I use it because the hinge usually stays intact most of the way to the ground.

I am scheduled to go next time they have one, so we shall see. We are trying to get everyone certified for FEMA cleanup details if needed and for CYA for the agency. Believe it or not, we have had ZERO training in the past on chainsaw safety and use. A tool we use weekly, if not daily on a WMA. I got the ball started on this end of the state, but wanted my technicians that are on the ground to get certified first.

If they don’t like the humbolt for safety, or an open face cut for its control....WTF do they use and did they say why????

Good deal on getting some training going. Everyone can learn, if they’re willing of course.

 

[Shanesaw80]

If they don’t like the humbolt for safety, or an open face cut for its control....WTF do they use and did they say why????

Good deal on getting some training going. Everyone can learn, if they’re willing of course.

I’m curious as well to what they use if their main concern is safety and control and their reasoning behind it. I teach a fair amount of chainsaw safety courses and felling courses but we never sacrifice safety and control of the tree just to save the log quality. Don’t get me wrong we cut to salvage the timber but when dealing with big dangerous trees the most important aspect is controlling that tree and getting it down without incident.

 

[Cat 525]

No matter what type of cut is used it's critical to have a good escape route! Always told the boys don't stand there and admire your work! Get the hell outta there! Safest thing I know!

 

[XP_Slinger]

No matter what type of cut is used it's critical to have a good escape route! Always told the boys don't stand there and admire your work! Get the hell outta there! Safest thing I know!

Damn right!

I try to watch everything I can while I’m escaping. Could be moving toward danger if you’re not keeping an eye on things. This is why I clear and walk my route before the saw is even started.

 

[Marshy]

I will say, one down down side of a bore cut is you dont get an opportunity to wedge your back cut and get the tree moving in any certain direction. It's basically going with gravity.

 

[Marshy]

No matter what type of cut is used it's critical to have a good escape route! Always told the boys don't stand there and admire your work! Get the hell outta there! Safest thing I know!

No true words have been spoke. Only need to forget once and you get reminded.

 

[XP_Slinger]

I will say, one down down side of a bore cut is you dont get an opportunity to wedge your back cut and get the tree moving in any certain direction. It's basically going with gravity.

Truth. I set wedges on sides for insurance after the hinge is set, at about 8:00 and 4:00 if the diameter allows. If by chance the tree doesn’t go after cutting the trigger I drive those wedges evenly to push it over. Probably overkill to set 2 wedges, but it makes me comfortable. Working good so far.

 

[huskyboy]

I will say, one down down side of a bore cut is you dont get an opportunity to wedge your back cut and get the tree moving in any certain direction. It's basically going with gravity.

You can wedge em if you cut “half the pie” and stick a wedge in there for insurance policy, then finish the cut.

 

[Cat 525]

Yes! Sometimes on a perfect balanced tree you can actually have it cut clear off and cut your points and it will sit right back down! That's when you hope for a breeze!

 

[XP_Slinger]

I kind of do this without the second bore cut, only because the bar has been passing through so far. I put a wedge on each side of the bore cut and center the trigger on the back of the tree. If I feel the need to have a wedge 180 from the face I set the trigger as shown to give room for it. So long as my hinge has adequate strength, the tree ain’t going nowhere until I want it too, which is what I really like...Control. I shut the saw off and set it in a safe place while driving wedges so I can hear what the tree is saying. Not trying to sound overly confident, I’ve just learned A LOT in the last 2 weeks and hope it helps some one.

 

[XP_Slinger]

Can any pros or instructors in here lay out the 4 or 5 steps that should be accomplished when assessing a tree to cut down? Something like 1) asses the lean 2)determine desired felling direction 3) clear your escape route 4) determine safe cutting technique

Yada yada yada something along those lines

 

[XP_Slinger]

Yes! Sometimes on a perfect balanced tree you can actually have it cut clear off and cut your points and it will sit right back down! That's when you hope for a breeze!

And watch from a safe distance lol. Bad scenario unless you have the equipment to rectify the situation

 

[Cat 525]

You kinda hit all the points to do right there! We always try to have some reflective on of some sort also. Easier for skidder man and everyone else to be spotted! I always check before the final cut to locate them!

 

[Ryan Browne]

Hazards
Hinge
Escape route
Lean
Plan

That's what they gave us at the FISTA course I took. I guess HHELP is close enough to HELP to make it stick in your mind. "Hinge" is just determining your desired width and thicknesses, generally as a function of the diameter of the tree. "Plan" is basically decide what to do given the info from the first 4 assessments.

I have personally found it to be of some help, especially when I'm trying to remember what to talk about if I'm showing someone what I'm doing. Also, I do believe in the power of checklists. Getting in a rythm can be dangerous. It's good to stop and examine your thinking.

 

[Shanesaw80]

I’ll write out the steps we go through and teach around here but it won’t be until tomorrow night as I’m a bit busy with other paperwork tonight. It can be written out short or long, depending on how much detail you want.