The OEM vs. AM Cylinder Debate

[afleetcommand]

Cross

 

[afleetcommand]

Looks like the same technic, one of my "YouTube" subs brought this to my attention.....might be a different place. Might not. What do YOU think?

Basically low pressure die casting with sand cores.

The one thing that just jumps out at me is they don't use part probing on the CNC's....In 1982 I bought a Niigata HN50a with their part probing system (Like a Renshaw Probe on steroids) and setup a system to machine sand cast parts for a military contract...to center the program to a cast feature, used that probing system. On the exhaust, that pretty much has to be relative to the base machining or the mufflers wouldn't fit. But the intakes??? damn. A few thou here and there doesn't matter on the OD because of the intake pipe on those Stihl's, so why not center the machining to the "as cast" feature? Did it with an 1980's era Fanuc 6MB! ( Using the "Macro B" language & the probe ) That was a long time ago. Figured it would be more common place now.

 

[Simondo]

Thanks...not heard about them before as ordering from the US is not often a option.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

And it's going to stay that way for while too.

Husky moved parts for the Northeast back to the Troy warehouse. They had a meeting/lunch up there on Tues to show us the operation. Had some corporate guys there and I had a nice conversation with the guy who is in charge of parts sales for the US. Asked him about the price drop last year, strategy, how it's working for them. Bottom line is they will be competitive on parts and they want dealers buying parts from them. They aren't just thinking P&C kits like we're discussing here, but all parts for everything they sell. (30,000 parts in the system). Parts aren't as exciting as shiny new stuff, but it's serious big business.

SO much has changed in just the last couple of years. Two years ago, OEM kits were way up there in price. Distributors were selling Asian kits to dealers in the $60-$80 range. Others were selling to end users in the $120-$150 range. That pricing structure has been completely blown up. Husky prices pretty much make both the distribution suppliers and the "premium" AM retailers kind of obsolete. There are exceptions of course, where it's more convenient for guys to buy those kits. And for Stihl guys, their OEM kits are still at ivory tower pricing. And then from the lower end of the price ladder, the ability to buy kits online/direct opens up an even bigger gap between those kits and the premium stuff.

VERY smart strategy too IMHO that I would bet dollars to donuts has already proven itself beneficial to their bottom line. To me it's a win-win for them as well as us.

 

[malk315]

If bearing prices come down it makes OEM a no brainer for me. On the 51 I did the two most expensive things were P&C and bearings. I know the saw isn't worth putting more pricey OEM cylinder in but this saw had some sentimental value and desire to keep all OEM. Not looking to get any money back out. Honestly I would have saved on $40 if I went with AM cylinder from HL supply. I'm very happy with OEM from Bob. If the saw lasts a while it's $40 well spent.


Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Stump Shot]

I've been thinking all morning on what Simon(thank you) touched on "coming full circle". This really when you get down to where it starts and ends is at the dealer. I'm waiting for the day when a saw I built to end up at a dealer in town, for whatever the circumstance, saw was resold etc. etc. I could say with near 100% certainty, I'll be the lowest form of life the planet has ever produced, no matter how low the price was, it will have been too much for junk, garbage etc. etc. and so on.
I find it quite ironic you can take the exact same saw sold new at the exact same dealership that refused service and sold a new saw instead, now has the authority over the same saw that was given a second chance at life, and doomed with a judgment of being rubbish once more. The saws only chance now is to end up at a good dealer or another mechanic such as myself.
So we've touched on unscrupulous sellers and pretty much don't like those guys, they're giving us a bad name. We also have to deal with unscrupulous dealers that are just stirring the pot looking for the next quick sale, no matter the circumstance.
The trouble with all this full circle business is their is a guy standing in the middle holding a power saw, that he just would like to run again. I would hope he would come to me and is why I put my phone number on every saw I work on, but how can you control a thing out of your hands like that?
I also would like to say here and now that by no means am I referring to any dealers that are on the Forum here, not a one, zip, zero, nadda. So please take it to heart when I say that I'm just referring to the few bad apples not the whole barrel, so to speak.
So while we all deep down have our own interests at heart at any thing we do, might be we need to step back at times and remember the guy in the middle of the circle, cause without him/her there will be no circle to worry about, it will be someone else circle, your circle will be empty. SS

 

[afleetcommand]

I've been thinking all morning on what Simon(thank you) touched on "coming full circle". This really when you get down to where it starts and ends is at the dealer. I'm waiting for the day when a saw I built to end up at a dealer in town, for whatever the circumstance, saw was resold etc. etc. I could say with near 100% certainty, I'll be the lowest form of life the planet has ever produced, no matter how low the price was, it will have been too much for junk, garbage etc. etc. and so on.
I find it quite ironic you can take the exact same saw sold new at the exact same dealership that refused service and sold a new saw instead, now has the authority over the same saw that was given a second chance at life, and doomed with a judgment of being rubbish once more. The saws only chance now is to end up at a good dealer or another mechanic such as myself.
So we've touched on unscrupulous sellers and pretty much don't like those guys, they're giving us a bad name. We also have to deal with unscrupulous dealers that are just stirring the pot looking for the next quick sale, no matter the circumstance.
The trouble with all this full circle business is their is a guy standing in the middle holding a power saw, that he just would like to run again. I would hope he would come to me and is why I put my phone number on every saw I work on, but how can you control a thing out of your hands like that?
I also would like to say here and now that by no means am I referring to any dealers that are on the Forum here, not a one, zip, zero, nadda. So please take it to heart when I say that I'm just referring to the few bad apples not the whole barrel, so to speak.
So while we all deep down have our own interests at heart at any thing we do, might be we need to step back at times and remember the guy in the middle of the circle, cause without him/her there will be no circle to worry about, it will be someone else circle, your circle will be empty. SS

First, that is well said. Completely agree.....and the issue can be expanded as some of the local dealers I'm around will stuff that same AM top end they would chastised you about right in that same saw and sell it without a hesitation, BUT not trying to patronize anyone; but there is one dealer a few hours away who has been probably the most successful with a famous Swedish brand in this part of the country that has made it his MO to put only the best parts in a saw, even if the price tag is a little higher. And lesson in that. And more interesting is how far folks will go, passing all these other dealers; simply to be a part of that success.

Part two of that is the most successful local dealer, is a Stihl dealer (much to my chagrin) who only use the OEM options......that leaves all the others who even have dealership access but haven't figured out the formula to get folks to break from their comfort zone and buy from THEM vs. the tried and true (supported also because the Gutchess Lumber Company is a patron) Stihl guy.

Part Three. One of the "Struggling" dealers has this mish mash of brands including one of their mechanical types trying to sell those Chinese "Emas" or whatever small saw clone 562's look alikes....throws this big diverse net out there.....but that hasn't gained the trust of the local pro's...wonder why... Parts inventory?? You ask. they order. you wait. And with the "off" brands?? You ask. They order. IF there is a distributer...they ask, they wait, They send to the distributer who in turn goes thru a process and sends it to the dealer....they call you. By then you have bought a new saw and cut enough wood to pay for it.

A trend? I think so.

 

[Simondo]

First, that is well said. Completely agree.....and the issue can be expanded as some of the local dealers I'm around will stuff that same AM top end they would chastised you about right in that same saw and sell it without a hesitation, BUT not trying to patronize anyone; but there is one dealer a few hours away who has been probably the most successful with a famous Swedish brand in this part of the country that has made it his MO to put only the best parts in a saw, even if the price tag is a little higher. And lesson in that. And more interesting is how far folks will go, passing all these other dealers; simply to be a part of that success.

Part two of that is the most successful local dealer, is a Stihl dealer (much to my chagrin) who only use the OEM options......that leaves all the others who even have dealership access but haven't figured out the formula to get folks to break from their comfort zone and buy from THEM vs. the tried and true (supported also because the Gutchess Lumber Company is a patron) Stihl guy.

Part Three. One of the "Struggling" dealers has this mish mash of brands including one of their mechanical types trying to sell those Chinese "Emas" or whatever small saw clone 562's look alikes....throws this big diverse net out there.....but that hasn't gained the trust of the local pro's...wonder why... Parts inventory?? You ask. they order. you wait. And with the "off" brands?? You ask. They order. IF there is a distributer...they ask, they wait, They send to the distributer who in turn goes thru a process and sends it to the dealer....they call you. By then you have bought a new saw and cut enough wood to pay for it.

A trend? I think so.

Your last sentence struck a note with a situation i had a few weeks back.
I sold a good order Husqvarna 254xp 1994 saw to a customer (not a young buck) to replace a 50cc Stihl he was using for "All" his firewood cutting.
He is not hung up on brands and tried the saw , liked it ,so bought it.
Now 2 yrs down the line its starting to show the signs of needing the usual TLC that comes with any kit that is used....wearing parts are getting harder to find and takes time = money to just track them down . He really likes that saw but was not so sure about the sort of cash he "Could" have spent on it . A idea was put forward as the 245 xp will do ok for a while longer if it has "some" of the load taken off it.
Solution.... keep the 254 xp.... but get a "New" powerful little 40cc class saw on a 15 inch bar that with the sort of firewood timber he cuts is what he will be happy to pick up for the 15 inch and smaller tree tops plus the coppicing /hedge line work that also needs doing.
He is over the moon with the modern saw and has already put 40 +hrs on it cutting timber for next year and hedge trimming .
I figure some parts for the 254xp will turn up or maybe a parts saw given time ...but... in the mean time he has not put more hrs on it than is needed and it will be ok to do the work when he needs a saw with a 18 " bar . That new saw is well on the way to paying for its self from the firewood he has cut with it.
No delays...no junked Husqvarna that he likes so much and has some life left if its not his front line saw + a happy guy with a new spec small saw. Just 1 solution i guess ...not to everyones taste or idea .... but more saws is good anyhow

 

[afleetcommand]

Your last sentence struck a note with a situation i had a few weeks back.
I sold a good order Husqvarna 254xp 1994 saw to a customer (not a young buck) to replace a 50cc Sthil he was using for "All" his firewood cutting.
He is not hung up on brands and tried the saw , liked it ,so bought it.
Now 2 yrs down the line its starting to show the signs of needing the usual TLC that comes with any kit that is used....wearing parts are getting harder to find and takes time = money to just track them down . He really likes that saw but was not so sure about the sort of cash he "Could" have spent on it . A idea was put forward as the 245 xp will do ok for a while longer if it has "some" of the load taken off it.
Solution.... keep the 254 xp.... but get a "New" powerful little 40cc class saw on a 15 inch bar that with the sort of firewood timber he cuts is what he will be happy to pick up for the 15 inch and smaller tree tops plus the coppicing /hedge line work he also needs doing.
He is over the moon with the modern saw and has already put 40 +hrs on it cutting timber for next year and hedge trimming .
I figure some parts for the 254xp will turn up or maybe a parts saw given time ...but... in the mean time he has not put more hrs on it than is needed and will be ok to do the work when he needs a saw with a 18 " bar . That new saw is well on the way to paying for its self from the firewood he has cut with it.
No delays...no junked Husqvarna that he likes so much and has some life left if its not his front line saw + a happy guy with a new spec small saw. Just 1 solution i guess ...not to everyones taste or idea .... but more saws is good anyhow

You probably know my opinion about 254's.....

 

[Simondo]

You probably know my opinion about 254's.....

Yup.. i guess I do .