Pity you guys in CA

[Catman]

China dominates battery production today, with 93 “gigafactories” that manufacture lithium-ion battery cells, vs. only four in the United States, according to Benchmark Mineral Intelligence, a prominent data provider.Feb 11, 2021.

 

[Catman]

Cali-Commies want to make everything Green and purchase batteries made by China-Commies the Biggest Polluters on the planet! *f-wordin Laughable!!

 

[3browns]

I can't speak for anyone else but most of my animosity towards this comes from the nationwide trend I see in legislature like this

Politicians will agonize to ensure that legislation is put in place so .058% of the population can pee in front of the opposite gender and then rubber stamp something like this that effects a far broader percentage of the population

They seem to place more value on an agendas for the tiniest special interest group and pass ridiculous legislation that will eventually cripple the livelihood and production capacity of the people who work to literally build the very nation that supports this alarming trend

It is no different than "assault rifle" legislation

OPE today, RC cars and outboards and mopeds tomorrow

I am still so angry about this I am banging my keyboard and this will come off as rambling and incoherent probably

I am ready for band camp, just had to get it out

 

[Gaston]

How are they going to cut down large trees? With a truck full of batteries I guess.

 

[3browns]

How are they going to cut down large trees? With a truck full of batteries I guess.

Lithium batteries die when they die, unexpectedly and without warning

Running full on one second and dead the next

On board "battery life" meters can only tell you so much

For someone in a real timber falling situation vs bucking or limbing I would sure hate for a battery to take a chit when I was in the middle of a sketchy back cut on a scary leaner and my life was on the line

Yeah, yeah, "take more batteries along" is the easy answer but that's just a bandaid on the problem

Maybe by the time this all actually takes effect there won't be any more trees to worry about anyway because all the evil rednecks with 2 stroke chainsaws already cut them all down

 

[Al Smith]

Before every body gets miffed it's only a bill not a law -yet .A lot of those bill just die on the vine like frost bit tomatoes .Ohio in the past has had nearly as stupid of bills that never went anywhere but in the trash can .

 

[Gaston]

Trust me, I know all about lithium battery life. As a mechanic the battery tools kick ass, but the. They just fall off a cliff. I know Cali doesn’t have crazy logging going on but what about the old oak tree in an old neighborhood that is dead or in the way for building? I guess we better start teaching axe sharpening. I suppose they could always go back to one of these…..

 

[Gaston]

Agreed. But c.a.r.b sets the standard for a lot of the nations standard and regulations. The feds let California pay for the research and they just adopt it. I was a smog tech in Cali for years. Whatever carb said, the epa seemed to follow

 

[3browns]

Agreed. But c.a.r.b sets the standard for a lot of the nations standard and regulations. The feds let California pay for the research and they just adopt it. I was a smog tech in Cali for years. Whatever carb said, the epa seemed to follow

^^^^^This^^^^^

THEIR mandates are the reason you can’t buy something as simple as a plastic gas can that doesn’t have a spout with seven pieces that takes 3 hands and a monkey to operate and spills more gas than any 30 year old can

 

[Duce]

What confuses me is how are those zero emission cars or ope really powered? How is all that zero emission electricity generated? It can't be all solar, wind and hydro. How much comes from fuel fired turbines, jet fuel, natural gas, etc. ?

 

[3browns]

What confuses me is how are those zero emission cars or ope really powered? How is all that zero emission electricity generated? It can't be all solar, wind and hydro. How much comes from fuel fired turbines, jet fuel, natural gas, etc. ?

Yup Yup

You commented on the pic of my solar array, still not sure what you were asking

Anyway, the island in the background of my pic, Lanai, has THE highest utility rates in the nation

My island, Molokai, has the second highest

All electricity on Molokai is diesel generated, from fuel that has to be barged to the most remote island chain in the world

That doesn't come cheap and certainly is not eco friendly from several standpoints

I worried when we committed to solar about what happens to the solar panels years down the road and what happens to all the lithium batteries in my back up bank when they go south on me

All of that bothers me but so do $500-$600 a month electric bills

I worried about the same things when we bought a hybrid car and brought it over here to help combat $5.25 a gallon gas but once again I had to balance cost vs eco impact, etc

It is a balancing act for sure

Nobody wants pollution (unless you make your fortune cleaning up pollution) but there just seems to be an enormous elephant in the room that the politicians are choosing to ignore, pollution from BIG BUSINESS, but I guess if you contribute millions to campaign you get a pass

In Anchorage Alaska I used to watch trains hundreds of cars long go by that came from the coal mines near Healy and were going down to Seward where the coal was loaded by conveyor into ships bound for China

I could only imagine what the air in China was like and now we see pictures of it and it's worse than LA on a bad day

And as @Catman rightly points out thats where the batteries to fuel this brave new world of "zero emissions" OPE is going to come from

I guess China killing themselves to help us feel warm and fuzzy doesn't factor in to their equation

Maybe they will build an even bigger and taller Great Wall of China to keep all that *s-word in the atmosphere from coming over here

Sorry, went on another rant

Apologies in advance to all...

 

[Duce]

Yup Yup

You commented on the pic of my solar array, still not sure what you were asking

Anyway, the island in the background of my pic, Lanai, has THE highest utility rates in the nation

My island, Molokai, has the second highest

All electricity on Molokai is diesel generated, from fuel that has to be barged to the most remote island chain in the world

That doesn't come cheap and certainly is not eco friendly from several standpoints

I worried when we committed to solar about what happens to the solar panels years down the road and what happens to all the lithium batteries in my back up bank when they go south on me

All of that bothers me but so do $500-$600 a month electric bills

I worried about the same things when we bought a hybrid car and brought it over here to help combat $5.25 a gallon gas but once again I had to balance cost vs eco impact, etc

It is a balancing act for sure

Nobody wants pollution (unless you make your fortune cleaning up pollution) but there just seems to be an enormous elephant in the room that the politicians are choosing to ignore, pollution from BIG BUSINESS, but I guess if you contribute millions to campaign you get a pass

In Anchorage Alaska I used to watch trains hundreds of cars long go by that came from the coal mines near Healy and were going down to Seward where the coal was loaded by conveyor into ships bound for China

I could only imagine what the air in China was like and now we see pictures of it and it's worse than LA on a bad day

And as @Catman rightly points out thats where the batteries to fuel this brave new world of "zero emissions" OPE is going to come from

I guess China killing themselves to help us feel warm and fuzzy doesn't factor in to their equation

Maybe they will build an even bigger and taller Great Wall of China to keep all that *s-word in the atmosphere from coming over here

Sorry, went on another rant

Apologies in advance to all...

I was trying to make a point, everything is give and take, must be balanced. Turning farmland into solar farms. How that effects food production and costs, along with reducing oxygen production. We destroy our economy by boosting other countries. China uses almost twice our use of fossil fuels, global climate change has to involve all countries. California should be fined for allowing fires to burn out of control and not using good land management to reduce fires, or are they zero emission burns.

 

[3browns]

I was trying to make a point, everything is give and take, must be balanced. Turning farmland into solar farms. How that effects food production and costs, along with reducing oxygen production. We destroy our economy by boosting other countries. China uses almost twice our use of fossil fuels, global climate change has to involve all countries. California should be fined for allowing fires to burn out of control and not using good land management to reduce fires, or are they zero emission burns.

Got it and a big YUP YUP to that

I remember a show not all that long ago about how the electric utility companies essentially killed the solar industry in Nevada, one place where enormous solar arrays were certainly NOT going to take up arable land or disrupt agriculture

Big Business again, stomping on little business at the expense of all

No easy answer for sure and I have to admit, somebody needs to do something, but where do you start

I will be 66 in a couple of weeks and I am feeling as if I have outlived any hope for sanity and reason in this world

My dad pitied my generation and I pity my grandkid's generation

Guess that's a cop out

IDK

 

[Nutball]

I think there's something to be said for the battery technology in cars and other equipment. Just a few years ago most professionals were still using air/corded tools as opposed to battery equipment. Now most guys wouldn't be caught dead without their battery stuff, not because it's less hassle than the corded stuff but because it's superior in every way.

It sure took a while to catch on. The tech they are using today existed 10-20 years ago, but seemingly only known to the hobby and other niche markets. I like clean air too, and I think keeping pollution to a minimum is just common sense (which a lot of people seem to lack or just ignore), but again there seems to be a lack of moving forward with this issue in a sensible way. The equipment should sell itself. And how environmentally safe is the excessive use of plastics now? With electric power, tools will be made of more plastic than ever, not having to withstand high heat and vibration.

I like your sensible posts, Duke.

 

[Tim N]

It all comes down to one thing. Money

 

[Maintenance Chief]

I think there's something to be said for the battery technology in cars and other equipment. Just a few years ago most professionals were still using air/corded tools as opposed to battery equipment. Now most guys wouldn't be caught dead without their battery stuff, not because it's less hassle than the corded stuff but because it's superior in every way.

Now, I don't think legislating this stuff into reality is necessarily the way to do it, but California has historically had stricter environmental laws than the rest of the country and has used the size of their economy and population to drive a lot of that. It's the same thing that's going on here.

I definitely have some respect for clean air laws that have cleaned up a lot of the exhaust emissions from vehicles. Have you ever gotten behind an older vehicle and had to smell what was coming out of them? You hardly notice a lot of the things we have all benefitted from until it's jammed up your nose.

Lower emissions is a worthwhile endeavor for us all. We all benefit, and at what expense?
For example, cars as a whole are more powerful, reliable and emit less emissions than ever before. Some of the fastest production cars out there are Teslas and they're incredibly powerful. Sure, power plants emit garbage too, but I believe they're working on ways to change that as well.

In regards to lithium mining I'll admit, I don't know anything about it. The US has a long history of outsourcing our pollution to other places, so they'll probably "export" all that somewhere else.

Obviously none of us want to go back to a time when rivers are incredibly polluted and catching on fire. This law may be a little heavy handed, I haven't read enough about it to understand the nuances.

If you look at the explosive growth of battery equipment in the last 5 years, the performance and the investment from major OPE companies I think most consumers won't even think twice about these moves and most shops will have to pivot into that role.

It's not like all of the things taking place in California that need power equipment are going to end over night (concrete work, landscaping, forestry, etc.) They've got a few years (or more) and plenty industry backing to pivot. No company is just going to throw in the towel on California's economy.

The quality/performance of the equipment is QUICKLY catching up to the gas stuff and in some circumstances will surpass. Few more years most people will pick up gas equipment the same way you and I would pick up an old McCulloch and say to ourselves "I can't believe people used to use these."

I bought a 50.00$ Makita corded drill in 1995 and a 1/2" junior drill they both out lasted my first battery operated stuff and even today I think that Makita would twist your arms around when it "caught" , have you encountered the new torque limiting drills? Ive been through 3 cordless dremel tools from Milwaukee but have a dremel corded that has out lasted them all.
The battery stuff is convenient and I love it but in no way could anyone convince me that its better.

 

[Steve Taylor]

Maybe this has been discussed but the power company shut down again today from what I have read. How is anyone going to charge any of those fancy batteries with out generators?
Has everyone lost all common sense in the last few years?

 

[3browns]

Has everyone lost all common sense in the last few years?

Yes

 

[Steve Taylor]

Well I am glad I didn't live there. Most every thing you read lately just doesn't add up in my just to simple uneducated brain I guess. I believe student loan debt makes it all clear.

 

[huskihl]

Maybe this has been discussed but the power company shut down again today from what I have read. How is anyone going to charge any of those fancy batteries with out generators?
Has everyone lost all common sense in the last few years?

Yes

That would imply that they once had common sense. I wouldn’t jump the gun