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Part Six: The Exhaust System

thedude74

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Ketchup

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I recently came across a few ported saws with exhaust ports that weren’t widened, but were raised a little higher than normal. The saws run very well. What do you fellas think of this approach? I have always opted for wide before high, but I’m starting to think some of my ports are too wide.
 

Mastermind

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I recently came across a few ported saws with exhaust ports that weren’t widened, but were raised a little higher than normal. The saws run very well. What do you fellas think of this approach? I have always opted for wide before high, but I’m starting to think some of my ports are too wide.
I am very conservative on port width, both on the intake and the exhaust. After hanging a couple of rings in the exhaust, and seeing how a wide intake accelerates skirt wear, I started dialing back.
 

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@MustangMike, what you were saying in the Muffler Mods thread is definitely worth thinking about. I quoted you below for a little context.

A properly ported saw will usually create power at higher RPMS and will need a less restrictive exhaust ... it is about matching components.

Piped saws will create the most power, but they have a "chamber" and smaller outlet, it is all about experimenting to create the correct pulse that matches the saws porting. I believe it was TM who once stated that if the unburnt air/fuel comes out of the saw before ignition, you lose power, hence the importance of a pulse instead of just a flow, but it has to match your saw and different porting styles can produce different results.

I talked to someone who built competitive piped saws (Bret), and they do a lot of experimenting with the saw to determine what works best. He competed in a lot of events in upstate NY.

A 2 cycle is a lot different than an engine with valves.

So there are two things here to discuss: expansion chamber pipe saws and the general principle of exhaust back pressure as applied to can-style mufflers. I’m just saying how I think about it. Feel free to rip my ideas to shreds. The whole point is learning and improving.

Truth be told, I have no experience with expansion chambers. But I think I understand the principle. They use a reflected sound wave to back stuff the exhaust port. The angle of cone, volume and distance of the chamber determine when in the timing cycle the back pressure occurs (and how powerful). The porting recipe of the cylinder determines how much fresh charge is available in the chamber to backstuff. If only expansion pipes were smaller, all saws would have them and power-to-weight ratios would be much better off the sales shelf.

With a traditional can muffler, there is no back stuffing, just resistance to continued outflow. While I see how that will affect fuel economy, I don’t see it as necessary for creating power. A strong scavenge loop that clears the cylinder of burnt gas and the chamber achieving proper compression are what determine power output.

Resistance building in the muffler can help boost compression by reducing exhaust exit as the port closes, which will begin the chamber compression earlier. But we can reduce chamber size to set compression higher than can be achieved with muffler resistance. Further, starting the chamber compression earlier (by using back pressure in the muffler while the exhaust port is open) creates drag on the piston stroke earlier in the cycle and holds back RPM.

So as I see it, a can muffler should achieve a neutral amount of pressure just as the exhaust port closes. That will achieve the optimum amount of fuel in the combustion chamber, the least resistance to the piston stroke, and the best power creation from the fuel consumed.
 

MustangMike

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Since we have no way to measure it, there is no way for us to know if you are correct or not. Nice theory though.

However, I'll go back to my previous statements: Testing on each saw may be different and is likely the only way to find the best muffler.

Most of my muffler testing was done on a pair of MS660 clones with two Cross cylinders that were ordered at the same time and looked identical. (I called them my 660 twins). I did everything the same, except the mufflers. I would describe these cylinders as "semi ported". They were stronger than most stock 066/660s, but not as strong as most ported ones. The one with less muffler mods stayed very strong in the cut. The one with more muffler mods sounded great piss revving but fell on its face in the cut. My test wood was a large round of very dead, very hard Chestnut Oak (AKA Rock Oak). The wood was almost like petrified with all the sap wood gone. It was off the ground and had been there for over a decade.

So, a put a muffler modded like the first one on the second saw and they both had tremendous torque and cut well. It was a learning experience for me. More is not always better!
 

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Since we have no way to measure it, there is no way for us to know if you are correct or not. Nice theory though.

However, I'll go back to my previous statements: Testing on each saw may be different and is likely the only way to find the best muffler.

Most of my muffler testing was done on a pair of MS660 clones with two Cross cylinders that were ordered at the same time and looked identical. (I called them my 660 twins). I did everything the same, except the mufflers. I would describe these cylinders as "semi ported". They were stronger than most stock 066/660s, but not as strong as most ported ones. The one with less muffler mods stayed very strong in the cut. The one with more muffler mods sounded great piss revving but fell on its face in the cut. My test wood was a large round of very dead, very hard Chestnut Oak (AKA Rock Oak). The wood was almost like petrified with all the sap wood gone. It was off the ground and had been there for over a decade.

So, a put a muffler modded like the first one on the second saw and they both had tremendous torque and cut well. It was a learning experience for me. More is not always better!

I think this is really interesting. Have you measured compression?
 

MustangMike

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No, I have tried to in the past but it never worked out well, so I don't bother. You can get a good idea of compression when you start them up.
 
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