Oil questions...

[Partner]

A few more posts and it will be the best one

 

[lilspenny]

This is the old verbiage.
"
Perfectly matched. Ultra-clean.
STIHL HP Ultra contains an ash-free wear additive package. That prevents calcium and sodium sulphate ash occurring as combustion products. With synthetic esters as lubricants, the high-performance engine oil is very clean-burning. STIHL HP Ultra is also very environmentally-friendly, low in sulphur and biodegradable - more than 80 per cent in 21 days."

Found here.

https://www.landmsupply.com/stihl-hp-ultra-2-cycle-engine-oil?srsltid=AfmBOorsfaRG-bDuIr9lrrBHRkDnZu9ExbIipge8ygICmoFWIotFnvBc

There are so many things there that are funny. First, I'd have to run Texaco Ursa 32:1 to make more carbon. Second, being biodegradable is great but that doesn't influence my choice in oils. Third, Stihl seems so proud of their clean burning FB rated oil. Ha! Finally, with Stihl sourcing their much marketed cobalt containing batteries from China... which is invested in The People's Republic of the Congo and children as young as 5 years old are mining the cobalt Stihl seemingly thinks we don't know that and is attempting to posture their corporate image as being a company that looks after the earth and therefore its' citizens. I have some 4-mix equipment and I'll take my chances with something besides Stihl Ultra if for no other reason that it smells like skunk fanny. Since my Stihl dealer support is so awful and big boxes don't carry any Stihl routine maintenance parts my next purchase will be an Echo or Shindaiwa. There are some things I see in Echo products as a bit less refined than Stihl but finding an acceptable oil for my 4-mix engines has been a real task and although Amsoil Saber seems to be a decent choice I really dislike Stihl's wording where they say if you don't use Stihl oil you should use an "equivalent" oil. pffft! If there is one I'd like to know what it is. Matching Stihl's viscosity, flashpoint, and composition is impossible because such oil does not exist, or does it? I can't find it. Stihl will not be specific when asked to describe "equivalent", but they say to use a fully synthetic oil made only for air cooled engines. Well, what about the ashless part? They say to contact my dealer. Ha! The one that has no idea how to stock parts? I'm glad I am mechanically inclined and Sohars and eBay are good parts sources. Sorry for the rant.

 

[bwalker]

Equivalent doesn't mean identical.

That and flashbpoint us a totally useless metric for our use.

 

[lilspenny]

Equivalent doesn't mean identical.

Tgat and flashbpoint us a totally useless metric for our use.

Here is what Stihl wrote to me...

-------


Thank you for contacting STIHL Inc.



Regarding your inquiry, we would like to provide you with the following information:



To ensure the maximum performance of your STIHL engines, please use a high quality 2-cycle engine oil. To help your engine run cleaner and reduce harmful carbon deposits, STIHL recommends using STIHL HP Ultra 2-cycle engine oil, or we would kindly advise you to ask your dealer for an equivalent fully synthetic 2-cycle engine oil.

Please use only STIHL two-stroke engine oil or equivalent high-quality two-stroke engine oils that are designed for use in air cooled two-cycle engines.

Additionally, please do not use NMMA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chain saws, mopeds, etc.).

For your own convenience, we would like to provide you with a link to locate an authorized STIHL dealer in your area, as well as with the Owner's Instruction manuals of the products in PDF form, which are also downloadable and/or printable.

------

So that rules out Red Armor, Husqvarna xp+, Royal Purple, Redmax. Hard to say about oils such as HP2 and many fine motorcycle oils that have no JASO claims and certifications. Perhaps VP would work although it's viscosity is lower. Castrol perhaps would work, and I "ass/u/me" that Saber and other oils that claim to be JASO quality would be ok. But..... none of these are ashless AND meet Stihl's other suggestions. Oh... this would also rule out orange bottle Stihl, Lucas, and the beat goes on. The owner's manual allows orange bottle Stihl, and perhaps others... but what about valve deposits caused by "low ash" oils and warranty ckaims?I don't think this oil choice is rocket science, and I fully believe that most FD oils would be great, but the not mentioned "ashless" looms. Hey, I can tear down and rebuild any 4-mix machine.

 

[bwalker]

Here is what Stihl wrote to me...

-------


Thank you for contacting STIHL Inc.



Regarding your inquiry, we would like to provide you with the following information:



To ensure the maximum performance of your STIHL engines, please use a high quality 2-cycle engine oil. To help your engine run cleaner and reduce harmful carbon deposits, STIHL recommends using STIHL HP Ultra 2-cycle engine oil, or we would kindly advise you to ask your dealer for an equivalent fully synthetic 2-cycle engine oil.

Please use only STIHL two-stroke engine oil or equivalent high-quality two-stroke engine oils that are designed for use in air cooled two-cycle engines.

Additionally, please do not use NMMA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chain saws, mopeds, etc.).

For your own convenience, we would like to provide you with a link to locate an authorized STIHL dealer in your area, as well as with the Owner's Instruction manuals of the products in PDF form, which are also downloadable and/or printable.

------

So that rules out Red Armor, Husqvarna xp+, Royal Purple, Redmax. Hard to say about oils such as HP2 and many fine motorcycle oils that have no JASO claims and certifications. Perhaps VP would work although it's viscosity is lower. Castrol perhaps would work, and I "ass/u/me" that Saber and other oils that claim to be JASO quality would be ok. But..... none of these are ashless AND meet Stihl's other suggestions. Oh... this would also rule out orange bottle Stihl, Lucas, and the beat goes on. The owner's manual allows orange bottle Stihl, and perhaps others... but what about valve deposits caused by "low ash" oils and warranty ckaims?I don't think this oil choice is rocket science, and I fully believe that most FD oils would be great, but the not mentioned "ashless" looms. Hey, I can tear down and rebuild any 4-mix machine.

Why do you think those are ruled out? Why did you expect to get good information from Stihl or a dealer?

 

[farminkarman]

Why do you think those are ruled out? Why did you expect to get good information from Stihl or a dealer?

Lol, my local Stihl dealer doesn't even recommend the Ultra HP, but he is forced to have so much of it on display. He said he has sent his rep numerous photos showing the mess that it makes.

 

[bwalker]

Lol, my local Stihl dealer doesn't even recommend the Ultra HP, but he is forced to have so much of it on display. He said he has sent his rep numerous photos showing the mess that it makes.

Good on him. Most dealers have drank the Koolaide that Ultra is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Khntr85]

Red armor for thy win lol….started using it year or so ago, took exhaust off just for ahits and giggles other day, looks brand new…saws a year old and hasn’t had a whole lot of hours….but my blower and trimmers I have been running running it in also and they are looking god too…

 

[lilspenny]

Why do you think those are ruled out? Why did you expect to get good information from Stihl or a dealer?

My question to Stihl was "What specifications constitute an equivalent oil?" Their response was what I copied and pasted. With respect to their reply the Husqvarna, Redmax, and Echo oils are not fully synthetic as they are synthetic blend oils. The Royal Purple meets tc-w3 and FD -- no multi-purpose oils allowed. Must be for air cooled engines only. Many great oils are still in limbo as they may be within guidelines but whobis to say? My dealer, that's who. I plan to take Stihl's reply to heart and plan to live and play by what they said, whether good information or not. I've got a br800 and an fs131r which are less than one year old so warranty guidelines apply. I hate Stihl Ultra and I see the term "equivalent" difficult if not impossible to interpret so I wrote Stihl to find out what "equivalent" means to them and that was their reply. As far as specific alternatives?? go see my dealer. So, the answer was without resolve, but "fully synthetic" oils are easily understood so that rules out Echo and Husqvarna oils.

 

[EFSM]

Here is what Stihl wrote to me...

-------


Thank you for contacting STIHL Inc.



Regarding your inquiry, we would like to provide you with the following information:



To ensure the maximum performance of your STIHL engines, please use a high quality 2-cycle engine oil. To help your engine run cleaner and reduce harmful carbon deposits, STIHL recommends using STIHL HP Ultra 2-cycle engine oil, or we would kindly advise you to ask your dealer for an equivalent fully synthetic 2-cycle engine oil.

Please use only STIHL two-stroke engine oil or equivalent high-quality two-stroke engine oils that are designed for use in air cooled two-cycle engines.

Additionally, please do not use NMMA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chain saws, mopeds, etc.).

For your own convenience, we would like to provide you with a link to locate an authorized STIHL dealer in your area, as well as with the Owner's Instruction manuals of the products in PDF form, which are also downloadable and/or printable.

------

So that rules out Red Armor, Husqvarna xp+, Royal Purple, Redmax. Hard to say about oils such as HP2 and many fine motorcycle oils that have no JASO claims and certifications. Perhaps VP would work although it's viscosity is lower. Castrol perhaps would work, and I "ass/u/me" that Saber and other oils that claim to be JASO quality would be ok. But..... none of these are ashless AND meet Stihl's other suggestions. Oh... this would also rule out orange bottle Stihl, Lucas, and the beat goes on. The owner's manual allows orange bottle Stihl, and perhaps others... but what about valve deposits caused by "low ash" oils and warranty ckaims?I don't think this oil choice is rocket science, and I fully believe that most FD oils would be great, but the not mentioned "ashless" looms. Hey, I can tear down and rebuild any 4-mix machine.

What a crock of.

 

[EFSM]

Just got done rebuilding a 461 that burned up on Ultra, although it was running lean. Ultra just doesn’t give you a margin for error.

I personally use Red Armor and sell lots of it. I understand if someone wants to avoid it due to the mess it leaves on some equipment but I am amazed every time I take an engine apart that has had RA run in it. I have seen fuel system issues drop off a cliff for those switching to it due to its exceptional fuel stabilizer.

How can we steer Stihl back into the world of reality?

 

[bwalker]

My question to Stihl was "What specifications constitute an equivalent oil?" Their response was what I copied and pasted. With respect to their reply the Husqvarna, Redmax, and Echo oils are not fully synthetic as they are synthetic blend oils. The Royal Purple meets tc-w3 and FD -- no multi-purpose oils allowed. Must be for air cooled engines only. Many great oils are still in limbo as they may be within guidelines but whobis to say? My dealer, that's who. I plan to take Stihl's reply to heart and plan to live and play by what they said, whether good information or not. I've got a br800 and an fs131r which are less than one year old so warranty guidelines apply. I hate Stihl Ultra and I see the term "equivalent" difficult if not impossible to interpret so I wrote Stihl to find out what "equivalent" means to them and that was their reply. As far as specific alternatives?? go see my dealer. So, the answer was without resolve, but "fully synthetic" oils are easily understood so that rules out Echo and Husqvarna oils.

No oil can meet both FD and TCW3.
You are crazy if you think Stihl would give you a straight answer.
Fully synthetic is a marketing term. Almost none of them are.
IMO the design if the 4mix is piss pour and Stihl is using Ultra as a band aid to make up for the stupid design.
I'd sell the Stihl crap and go Redmax or Husky stuff made by Redmax. Echo would be another option, but I like Redmax the best. Had great luck with it for decades.

 

[huskihl]

In my eyes, an equivalent to Stihl ultra would be something like a cheap multipurpose oil from Quaker State or Pennsoil. Even the Walmart synthetic stuff is great compared to most name brands

 

[farminkarman]

In my eyes, an equivalent to Stihl ultra would be something like a cheap multipurpose oil from Quaker State or Pennsoil. Even the Walmart synthetic stuff is great compared to most name brands

Isn’t Stihl ultra about on par with that Stens oil?

 

[Jusgunn3]

I would go for the VP oil if I was limited to Wally World.

 

[EFSM]

Isn’t Stihl ultra about on par with that Stens oil?

I think Stens is FD rated for what it’s worth.

 

[huskihl]

Isn’t Stihl ultra about on par with that Stens oil?

Yeah I think they were back to back. Stens even has the FD certification on the bottle. Which proves that in order to be certified they use the honor system with no actual testing just like that email said.

 

[lilspenny]

Just got done rebuilding a 461 that burned up on Ultra, although it was running lean. Ultra just doesn’t give you a margin for error.

I personally use Red Armor and sell lots of it. I understand if someone wants to avoid it due to the mess it leaves on some equipment but I am amazed every time I take an engine apart that has had RA run in it. I have seen fuel system issues drop off a cliff for those switching to it due to its exceptional fuel stabilizer.

How can we steer Stihl back into the world of reality?

Well, Stihl is not trying to max out on sales. The dealers here don't even stock valve cover gaskets for br800 blowers. I went to three dealers. Meanwhile, the local Echo dealer is slammed with business every day. If Stihl were trying they would have a complete line of 2 stroke equipment, an FD rated oil here in the USA, and be price competetive. Instead, Stihl is becoming more and more into battery powered equipment. Here in Alabama battery powered equipment is not wanted by most professionals. Stihl is so politically correct next thing you know they'll have left handed string trimmers.

 

[Partner]

I don't know if there is another oil on the shelf at the Stihl dealer

 

[lilspenny]

I don't know if there is another oil on the shelf at the Stihl dealer

Exactly. Even if they sell other ope brands it won't be fully synthetic. Maybe some hardware store dealers would???