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No more business with friends.... Advice needed (long story)

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Turd Furgeson, May 5, 2021.

  1. Turd Furgeson

    Turd Furgeson Active OPE Member

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    Looking for advice here, I have the worst luck doing any type of business with friends. More often than not I get left holding the bag on things.

    I have an old work buddy, that became a chainsaw buddy. We worked at two companies together, great guy. We're not best friends or anything, but I enjoy catching up from time to time. Anyways...

    His dream saw was a Stihl 064, they have a cult following as you know. Clean examples can bring really good money. I wouldn't say I'm great at finding deals, I'm just a bachelor with a dog so I have more free time than my friends that have families do to look. Said friend told me to watch for an 064 for him a while back. He said anything under $550 in decent shape would be good for him. I tried sending him ads and eBay auctions, but he was always slow on the draw and never pulled the trigger. I'd hear remorse on deals passing him by.

    So, last fall I did a random ebay search and saw a 064 listed seconds before my search. An estate sale flipper listed it "AS is" bought at a local logger's estate sale, turns over and has compression, know nothing about chainsaws. All in and to my door it was $425, saw looked fairly clean and well taken care of other than a dented muffler cover and standard paint loss. Said "F" it and pulled the trigger. I had no desire for an 064 and knew if the saw ran it was a steal, and if it didn't I could probably re-list it on eBay and get my money back. Told my buddy I bought it and eventually let him know I bought it for him. He said he was interested, and to be fair I forgot he was trying to piece together a 066.

    The saw came, looked as good in person as it did the pictures. Had great compression. Pulled the muffler, checked the P&C, it wasn't factory fresh but looked good. Buttoned it up, filled the tank, gave her a prime down the carb and it fired on the second pull. Took a video and sent that and the pics to my buddy. Ran for a bit and started loading up. I adjusted the low jet and it sat and idled away while I did other things in the yard for 20 or 30 minutes. Revved it a few times, turned it off, dumped the gas, and put some MMO in the cylinder to soften the carbon up and get into the ring groove.

    Checked in with my buddy, he said the money was tight and to check back in after the holidays. I was going to pass it on for the $425 I had in it. I threw it on a shelf. I checked back in after the holidays and he said he couldn't swing the saw and I should keep or sell it. I was bummed, disappointed, but not surprised. I have a transmission in my shop with a similar back story.

    Anyways, the saw sat for 4 more months. During a conversation the buddy asked if I had the saw yet, I said yes. He offered $450 and I said sold. So we did the deal. I didn't try starting the saw again, I didn't see a reason to.

    That night I get a text that it has no spark. Seems odd for a coil to suddenly go bad sitting on the shelf. I wonder if the plug got fouled by the MMO or it was just over-choked, but my buddy would take offense if I asked simple things like that. I ask what he wants and he said he'll just get a new coil since he "stole a big Stihl" from me, the coil didn't bother him.

    A while goes by and I don't hear anything. I text and get a response later in the day and I'm told that a new coil went on and he's used the saw a bit, he likes it a lot and it has more power than his 460 at about the same weight. He ordered new seals, case gaskets, and a bunch of other stuff as preventative items. I would have just left it unless a problem came up.

    Later that same day I get a text, saying the saw is "f'ed". He was willing to overlook the coil, but now a cylinder head bolt is stripped. He sends a video with an impact driver running the M5 bolt up and down like my cousin's kid at his little tikes workbench. There are block-off plates on it now and it looks like he was doing a pressure test. I'm not sure if it was a pre or post seal/gasket job. The saw did not run like it had an air leak, and he didn't mention it earlier in the day.

    I know a lot of guys use impact drivers, but I've broken and stripped enough larger stuff with them on my car, that I won't use them for anything but the flywheel and clutch nuts on a saw. There is no second chance with impacts as far as I am concerned. They're great until they're not and then you're screwed.
    Furthermore, I believe stripped cylinder head bolts are semi-common on 064's. Stihl changed it from M5 to M6 for later 064's and 066 saws. I wouldn't consider that being an "f'd" issue either. A heli-coil or tapping it to M6 would both be easy low-risk repair. Especially if he was willing to tear it down earlier in the day for preventative maintenance.

    So now I'm at a loss on what to do. I want to just give him his money back and be done with it. But I also don't know what else was messed with now, and if there will be hard feelings because he went out and bought a bunch of stuff it didn't need. The video makes me uneasy, free running the stripped bolt in soft magnesium is essentially making the situation worse. If he wallowed it out too big for a heli-coil or m6, then I have to deal with that headache.

    At the end of the day it's a 35 year old USED saw that I tried to do a solid for a buddy on. His dealbreaker is a known easily fixed issue (could be wrong on that) on a model he wanted. I was going to pass it onto him for no profit but took $25 for holding it for a few months. I've bought stuff from this same friend for more than $25 that he dragged home from the dump.

    What would you guys do?

    Lesson finally learned I'm done trying to help people out.

    Thanks,

    TF
     
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  2. davidwyby

    davidwyby Foster home for at risk saws n deuces GoldMember

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    If it makes you feel any better, I've gotten a lot worse from people I consider better friends.

    I think it's his problem. But I'm too nice like it sounds you are so I'd probably offer to helicoil it for him, but the rest is on him.
     
  3. Spladle160

    Spladle160 Pinnacle OPE Member GoldMember

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    Did he give any indication he felt any of this was your issue or problem? Maybe he knows he messed it up and is keeping you in the loop?
     
  4. jacob j.

    jacob j. Beezlebubba GoldMember

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    I would tell him that if he was using an impact driver of any sort, then he likely fubared it. Don't let his ignorance or poor judgement become your problem, and if he's
    going to try and screw you over, then he probably wasn't your buddy to begin with.

    I never buy anything on anyone's behalf specifically for that reason. In the early days of AS, I went out of my way to buy a vintage saw for a member that I thought was
    a buddy. After driving five hours round trip and spending $400, he told me he didn't want it after he specifically told me he did want it earlier. That was my one and only time
    I bought a tool on anyone's behalf.

    If you think the relationship is worth salvaging, then offer to help your buddy fix it, but be firm about the fact that you did him a favor and there's no guarantee.
     
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  5. Czed

    Czed Aluminium Member

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    Nothing good comes from dealing with used 064s I noticed on the forums.
     
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  6. CrystalRiver1

    CrystalRiver1 Pinnacle OPE Member

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    What he said.
    No more favors for this dude either!
     
  7. Turd Furgeson

    Turd Furgeson Active OPE Member

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    The initial text wasn't clear, but now it's sounding like he thinks it's my issue, I just got another text.
     
  8. Wonkydonkey

    Wonkydonkey Pinnacle OPE Member

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    These are difficult situations to be in.
    Yrs ago I brought a dehumidifier off a friends friend. I found out he,d got cheap a fixed it so it worked.
    However, what do you do with a dehumidifier. Plug it in and just turn it on then let it run.

    so 2 or 3 weeks later, it stops working. I asked the guy I brought it from to have a look.
    About 3 weeks later I saw him and asked if he'd had a look yet.

    the reply was yes it was broken and he couldn’t fix it. I said ohh. I’ve only had it a short time. Can I get a refund. The reply was there was no guarantee. I was a bit pissed, as I really hadn’t hat it or used it much, I also think it was his fix that didn’t last.
    I asked for it back as he could fix it. Then I got the reply that he'd already disposed of it in the dump.
    I said But that’s mine and you chucked it way. He then said but it couldn’t be fixed.

    I just left it right there.. and never brought from him or helped him in anyway way.. I even drove passed him once when he had trouble with his car, and I bibbed my horn.
    The next time I saw him, I just said I was late for a date. And sorry I couldn’t stop. But I did have a chuckle to myself
    I will add He’s is still a friend of a friend but not someone I’d buy from ever again.
    I 'm now very carful if I buy from friends or friends of friends,

    You should have ran it before handing it over..but we all do things in hindsight, that we should and do learn from.
    so personally, I’d ask how he wanted me to sort it. Either give him the money back or fix the stripped thread with a helicoil. But the rest is on him, if he chooses the helicoil.

    I could also tell you a quick story of people wanting free stuff, “if you see xxx get it for me. Ie what others put out with a note free to collecter. Well I’ve seen and done this. Then after dragging it over. it’s not good enough etc.
    So now I just phone them and say it’s in this street and send a pic of it.
     
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  9. Turd Furgeson

    Turd Furgeson Active OPE Member

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    I don't think that will play out that way. I don't mind helicoiling it. But I don't think the saw will ever go away now. Those cards have been laid down on the table.

    Yeah.... Impact drivers... The Youtubers do it though! Sorry to hear that about the saw run man. People...


    Lesson learned. Funny you say that. I have no interest in 064's because my ex's parents essentially stole one from the tenants who rented their property before they purchased/closed on it. Now every time I see one I think of them and thinking about them is the last thing I want to do. If one of you guys "lost" an 064 in the Cariboo region of BC, I know where your saw is.
     
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  10. Mastermind

    Mastermind Head Slacker Staff Member GoldMember

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    Give him his money back, fix it, sell it for a profit. Then turn the page....
     
  11. davidwyby

    davidwyby Foster home for at risk saws n deuces GoldMember

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    this, for sure
     
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  12. merc_man

    merc_man merc_man

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    This makes me think of a "friend" that offered to help me take down a tree on my yard. I never asked for help. I never do. Im stubborn that way lol. Any how he says i can borrow the snorkle lift from work and help you get it down. I think ya sure. Thats easyer then climbing it. So it took a few hours got it down and i asked him what he wanted for the help. (I dont want anything for free. Just the way i am. Rather give then recieve) he says i havnt been fishing in years. Could i go next time. Of course. Would love to take you out. So took him out great time. Few weeks later i rented a stump grinder and i new he could use it so i took it ther and let him do what he needed done. I figure this should be plenty in return for his help. Fast forward almost 6 years later i heard him mention he was thinling about getting a wood stove for his addition they done. I though well i got one for sale on kijiji i will give you a better deal. He says oh cool and i show it to him. Sweet he says thats the exact one they were looking at in the store. I was asking 200 and i said i would sell to him for 100. Then he pulls the ya know, I saved you a lot of money when i helped with the tree. Fack me i thought to myself. He is this kind a di ck head. I just let him have it and said. Ther were even.
    I havnt heard or tried speaking to him since.

    I never offer to help someone and expect something in return. Heck i have offered to help people and it winds up costing me money that i never ask for. Weather its fuel or something breaks. Just the way i am.
    Vent over lol.
    I never even told my wife that this happened. She would be pissed too lol.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Lightning Performance

    Lightning Performance Here For The Long Haul!

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    Solid advice there ^




    The favor has a already been *s-word on. Do you wish to be *s-word on again?

    Got HS "buddies" that owe my money for tree work on their property specifically removals of large trees. Guess I got off cheap cause they will never get my time again, ever.

    Spend more time here and enjoy all saws and tools. You'll make money while you learn.
     
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  14. Woodslasher

    Woodslasher Teh debil

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    Just my advice, take it or leave it, but I'd tell him it ran good here, I didn't notice any problems, tell him how you'd fix it, and see how it goes from there. If you say it was a common problem, he might think you're bs-ing him. If he says you broke it and you need to fix it, I'd follow Mastermind's advice. If he says ok, I'll do that or asks you to help him, I'd do that.

    I personally haven't had problems with guys, but my brother got burned by a "fellow saw guy". I met a guy via Craigslist that sold my brother a 480, a little later he was interested in a parts saw of mine up on CL, he asked if we'd like to drop by his place and talk saws. We did, he had a crap ton of cool saws ("mostly found in abandoned storage locker auctions") and knew some saw guys we knew, nice enough guy, yadda yadda. After we'd known him awhile my brother bought a 372 (without consulting me) off of him. He paid too much even if it had been all oem, but it wasn't. The recoil was a/m but with an oem sticker. Okay, whatever, I got a good used one off of the shop I worked for. Then I look at the top end. Dull, dark gray aluminum. Hmm. Pull the jug, yep, a/m slug n jug. I put a good used 50mm top end off of his other 372 on it and sold it immediately after so I'm not sure how much else was a/m. The cylinder cover and a/f cover were burned near the plug, the whole saw just seemed sketchy. When I asked about the a/m top end, "I dunno, I just bought it that way at a storage auction, I don't know what the previous owner did to the saw." We haven't spoken since. If he was as saw savvy as he said he was, he should have noticed. If he wasn't, he must have gotten damn lucky to not have a/m parts on his personal saws. My old boss heard about that and told me a customer brought in a saw with a melted piston he bought off of the guy. To his credit the guy ponied up for a new one but that's made me more cautious about used "ready to run" saws I buy.
     
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  15. Turd Furgeson

    Turd Furgeson Active OPE Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys. I’ll sleep on it. As I said I’m worried other more major stuff has been buggered that's not being mentioned and it will end up being more than a heli-coil and coil. I just looked back through my pictures I took when I pulled the muffler...


    Just for reference.

    P&C picks

    IMG_7373.jpg IMG_7375.jpg

    Front cylinder bolts

    IMG_7377.jpg

    the top one is the one he's claiming was fully stripped out. Looks to be holding fine there and that's after a cross country shipment.

    Running video



    Video he sent last night

     
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  16. Nathan lassley

    Nathan lassley Super OPE Member

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    I'm always Leery of do any kind of work with or for friends, I guess it goes with my natural distrust of people and see things my grandpa and dad dealt with, I was helping a friend fix up a mustang he had which had burn up front and wanted to swap the engine, I gave him an engine i had I knew was good with new seal and sitting on a stand at my grandparents house even delivered it, one day we were working on pulling the crispy old engine out, he says how you didn't give me the carburetor that was on the engine..it wasn't mine too give away. I got an F-U, then I said you're using my tools, my engine, and I actually know what I'm doing unlike you. Keep the *freakin' engine, good LUCK. We stayed friends but just hung out after that.

    My grandpa was letting a plumber rent part of 20 acres we had to store his equipment, they did this for a few years until he stopped paying his rent and got behind, my grandpa only wanted 300$ for the 6 month back rent because he knew the guy for years. He said he would pay it and didn't. Grandpa told him get his equipment off the property or he was going to take possession of it. After another month grandpa changed the lock. My brother and grandpa went back to start removing stuff and the guy showed up wanting to fight but left. We all went out there to mow the property and left our massey ferguson tractor there overnight and the *a-hole filled the engine with sand. Grandpa contacted the sheriff and fresno pd filling a restraining order. This guy worked with my grandpa off and on for twenty years and they were friends until that point.

    My dad has been a general contractor for 40 plus years. back in the 90s he formed a partnership with another contractor who was a kinda sorta friend that lasted 7 years when the guy started another company and began underbidding the jobs the partnership had bids on and took those jobs, my dad found when he went by one of the jobs and saw him working and that was the end of that partnership.
     
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  17. Nathan lassley

    Nathan lassley Super OPE Member

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    He reefed on it with the impact choochin the wrong way I says, if all else goes good but you can't get a heli coil to work put some quick steel in there then do a heli coil.
     
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  18. cus_deluxe

    cus_deluxe terms of service violator

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    is he a government worker? you know the saying..”if it aint broke, fix it til it is”. lol
     
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  19. motoOzarks

    motoOzarks motoMonster

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    I went to high school with and later into business with a "friend" from down the street.
    Loaned him his first money to start a bank account so we could get a business loan and then went without business draws so he could buy a house.
    He "did the paperwork" while I took care of equipment.
    One year he went on vacation and I decided to check on a couple suspicious things I had wondered about. The more I looked the more I found.
    Had to sell the business to cover most of it but I got bent hard.
    Tens of thousands.

    If all you have is a chainsaw consider yourself lucky that's all it is.

    Since your not in the chainsaw business you don't have a product to back. He bought it used it's his.

    He took it apart and knackered it, it's his parts now.

    If you have to cover it then the person you bought it from would have to cover it and then the person before and so on.
     
  20. stretch5881

    stretch5881 Pinnacle OPE Member GoldMember

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    I get burned by family more than by friends. I fix stuff for friends and get paid well. I have learned a long time ago, to not "find" stuff for people. Let them find it themselves.
     
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