It's MS461 Time In Tennessee

[MG porting]

Sounds like they're working around patents and are taking the scenic route to get to EPA compliance.

Exactly.

 

[MustangMike]

I wonder how much emissions were reduced from the 460 to 461. I'm thinking there may be a source in Germany that would know this?

 

[huskyboy]

Randy do you find more or less BD works better in the 461... and why? I know I’m poking the hornets nest asking that... I know there are different styles and opinions. That’s cool. I’m merely curious what Randy’s is.

 

[DND 9000]

I wonder how much emissions were reduced from the 460 to 461. I'm thinking there may be a source in Germany that would know this?

I haven`t found the emission data, only how much fuel is needed.

On the MS 460

Fuel consumption max. power/max torque 3,0 l/h, 516 g/kWh
absolute/specific 2,6 l/h, 516 g/kWh

On the MS 461

Fuel consumption on
max. power: 2,5 l/h, max. torque: 391 g/kWh,
absolute: 2,3 l/h, specific: 400 g/kWh
Complies with level 2 of the standard 2002/88 EG exhaust limitations

All the data is from the KWF (Kuratorium für Waldarbeit und Forsttechnik e.V.) in Germany

 

[Dub11]

The muffler opening is tiny. The transfers are canted in such a way that back pressure created in the muffler can back feed into the uppers. Plus the jet in the carb is small. The coil is also different. Ignition timing could be altered to help with fuel economy.

My point is just this.....delayed savaging is at best a gimmick. And.....it's a dirty way to purge the hydrocarbons.

A German company flaunting an emissions test?

Get the *f-word out here.

 

[pwheel]

On the MS 460
Fuel consumption max. power/max torque 3,0 l/h, 516 g/kWh
absolute/specific 2,6 l/h, 516 g/kWh

On the MS 461
Fuel consumption on
max. power: 2,5 l/h, max. torque: 391 g/kWh,
absolute: 2,3 l/h, specific: 400 g/kWh

Thanks for the info. If I'm understanding correctly, does l/h refer to liters/per hour fuel consumption and does g/kWh refer to emissions in grams per kWh of work?

 

[DND 9000]

Yes that`s right.

 

[RI Chevy]

So... 461 gives about the same power maybe a little more and uses less fuel than 460?

 

[DND 9000]

Yes, the MS 461 has a 2 cycle engine with delayed scavening technology, (1 in 4 channel).

 

[ayoungtexan]

Does the 461 run as good as the early 046?

 

[Wonkydonkey]

A German company flaunting an emissions test?

Get the *f-word out here.

ask volkswagen

 

[MustangMike]

I think that would be difficult to answer as some of the early 046s were real "Magnums" with factory DP mufflers. I also know some came with 70 carb jets (not sure if it was just the magnums or not).

Later 460 "Magnums" did not have these features, and were just called "Magnums" to sell more saws!

Also, the port timing on 046/460s was not real consistent, so it would likely depend on which saw you tested against. Some were real anemic, others were not.

 

[Mastermind]

Randy do you find more or less BD works better in the 461... and why? I know I’m poking the hornets nest asking that... I know there are different styles and opinions. That’s cool. I’m merely curious what Randy’s is.

There are only a few saws I've encountered that are really sensitive to blowdown time. The 461 isn't really one of them. There's another part of the cycle that's as important as blowdown.....but few people rarely talk, or think about it. Do you know what part of the cycle I'm referring to?

A German company flaunting an emissions test?

Get the *f-word out here.

I mean.....seriously.

 

[sawmikaze]

A German company flaunting an emissions test?

Get the *f-word out here.

Stihl said so.

So just believe it.

 

[markds2]

There are only a few saws I've encountered that are really sensitive to blowdown time. The 461 isn't really one of them. There's another part of the cycle that's as important as blowdown.....but few people rarely talk, or think about it. Do you know what part of the cycle I'm referring to?

Intake Duration?

 

[MustangMike]

Case Compression???

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I was going to say crankcase volume

 

[Mastermind]

Case Compression???

Yeppers.

The time in degrees of crankshaft rotation from intake closing until transfers begin to open.

 

[PA Dan]

Yeppers.

The time in degrees of crankshaft rotation from intake closing until transfers begin to open.

We just talked about that earlier today!

 

[Mastermind]

We just talked about that earlier today!

In my mind it's one of the most important parts. And often overlooked.