IEL-Pioneer thread

[av8or3]

Jim got any idea what the part number you are looking for is?

No, I’m trying to help another fellow out.

 

[old_sir_henry]

Looking at the IPL it seems the NU-17 doesn't have a choke but sort of a primer pump instead.
Wouldn't be the only Pioneer without choke, 1150 has a similar setup.

 

[av8or3]

The picture he sent made it look like a yellow knob. Is it a pump? He doesn’t speak perfect english so we may have miscommunicated (?).

 

[heimannm]

I was looking at an NU-17 today, mine has a primer button. I have a couple of parts saws but neither one still has the primer.

Mark

 

[Basher]

Yes the NU-17 has a primer pump,426815, that induces fuel straight into the carb throat ,rebuilding the pump is about impossible without the correct push diaphragm, the check valves are easy to make. I have rebuilt many of them throughout the years but finding diaphragms is the trick these days. The best alternative is to convert the primer setup to the easily available bubble primer bulbs like used on many smaller consumer saws, all that is needed is a squirt of fuel into the carb bore to get them started, same saw as the Pioneer 450-550. The yellow primer pump button, 426830, is usually busted off any old used saw so a NOS one would be tougher tracking one down.

 

[Shane¹]

Looks like this is it? Thanks @Basher for the part number

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Basher]

Looks like this is it? Thanks @Basher for the part number

Pardon Our Interruption...

Yep, that is the one.

 

[av8or3]

This thread moved fast! Thanks for all the help. Primer button has been secured.

 

[heimannm]

Leon Crouch repaired a Pioneer primer with fairly common materials.

Mark

 

[old_sir_henry]

Nice video. I have been stuck with the same problem on my 1150 without success.
Maybe that lack of success was caused by my misunderstanding of how the primer works:
I had assumed the pump's outgoing line would go back into the tank like with modern purging primers
and the whole purpose of the pump was to make sure fuel is available at the intake of the carb,
but as I understood Leon the output line rather goes into the crank-case to directly give fuel into the engine.

So this looks like a good starting point to give my 1150's primer issue another try!

 

[stihl #1]

I have been talking to Av8or3 about a spare NU 17 I have but now I am not sure if I want to break it down and I am afraid it would cost a lot to send the whole saw over to EU, so lets keep looking in case someone else finds one while I make up my mind. Great that we can all chime in with info and help on situations like this. Don't want to leave him in the lurch. I was teaching a Platinum School at STIHL Inc. and a student brought me a pickup load of Pioneer stuff since he knew I collected from when he went to Gold School. His dad was a Pioneer distributor back in the '60s and now that he was nearing retirement he was afraid the next generation would toss it all out.
He gave me 2 NU 17 saws that had been used for training schools so they had washers welded to all the fasteners for ease of tear down. One appears complete but when I was out taking pictures for Av I realized the rope won't pull out on it. Here is the other one:

Coil is shot and it is missing a lot of parts, but both tanks are clean and it has good compression and I don't think it ever actually has run, except for maybe when it was built since I understand that Pioneer started every saw they built. So when it cools off a bit I am going to see if the ignition is any good on the other one and if so see if maybe I can make a runner. Then I would be willing to part out the leftovers.
My friend also gave me a 620 cutaway:

Needs some cleaning...
He also gave me this:

He told me it was used around 1965 at trade shows to show off the Pioneer bar and chain they were manufacturing. The chain is made from wood parts and will rotate around the bar. I have not seen another one posted anywhere or heard of one so it may be the only one in existence. I am proud to have it in my collection and thankful that he thought to give it to me.
I need some Pioneer signs or posters to decorate the bare space on the lid so if anyone has duplicates I will be happy to trade some of my STIHL duplicates. I have posters, hats, and lots of other STIHL badged collectibles.

 

[Basher]

Nice video. I have been stuck with the same problem on my 1150 without success.
Maybe that lack of success was caused by my misunderstanding of how the primer works:
I had assumed the pump's outgoing line would go back into the tank like with modern purging primers
and the whole purpose of the pump was to make sure fuel is available at the intake of the carb,
but as I understood Leon the output line rather goes into the crank-case to directly give fuel into the engine.

So this looks like a good starting point to give my 1150's primer issue another try!

The check valve is actually a flat disc of the same buna N material that the pump diaphragms are made of, it fits in under the wire retainer down in the check valve bowl.Not a ball bearing or a nail head.

 

[heimannm]

That is some very cool stuff Eddie.

I recently acquired this McCulloch cutter for my display.



I don't have any Pioneer cutaways, but I do have an NOS RA with some documentation...



Mark

 

[stihl #1]

Mark, I saw the big cutter in another post, way cool. Amazing what was made over the years. And that saw is a beauty.
Here is the part that started this discussion regarding the NU 17:

Slight crack but some epoxy on the underside would solve that. I checked out the other saw I have and the ignition components are present under the flywheel but the coil looks bad, all the insulation is cracking off of both of them. I will play around with an old 3 legged briggs coil and see if that might work. Compression is low so I pulled the muffler and this saw only has one ring so I will use the other one if I can make spark again.

 

[stihl #1]

I tried to send Jason a MS 361 deco plug cover a while back, put it in a padded envelope and mailed it from here in N FL to him in VA, a couple of bucks postage and he never got it. So I sent him another one, with a tracking number, now it is 8 bucks and he got it right away. So if Av wants this I will for sure get a tracking number. Letting everyone know for the future so it doesn't happen to you..

 

[old_sir_henry]

The check valve is actually a flat disc of the same buna N material

Thanks, that's a good tip. IIRC in my saw there is a tiny plastic ball acting as check valve. Probably some kind of replacement. I think even the diaphragm had been replaced with something hardly working and now the entire primer does nothing at all...

 

[Basher]

Thanks, that's a good tip. IIRC in my saw there is a tiny plastic ball acting as check valve. Probably some kind of replacement. I think even the diaphragm had been replaced with something hardly working and now the entire primer does nothing at all...

I have been involved with IEL and Pioneer chainsaws since the mid 1950`s and I have seen many,many botched up fixes on these saws as parts and those that truly know these saws are quite scarce. I count myself very lucky in that regard as the first saws I got to run was an IEL model RA that I still have to this day, it still runs fine. T he primer pumps were an ok idea back in their day but after the mid 80`s rebuild parts became scarce and mostly only collectors of these saws hold any spares these days. I have likely rebuilt several dozen of the Pioneer push primers in their different forms and the diaphragms are about as scare as hen`s teeth, the ones I know of couldn`t be pried away from their owners due to scarcity to replace.When I get contacted which is often by those seeking these parts all I can tell them it is easier to swap carbs but also one of the common bulb type primers can be adapted easily, many choose that route.

 

[stihl #1]

Help Please! NU 17 bar studs
The studs do not go through to the oil tank:

They will not unscrew with a stud grip tool, or vice grips, so I used the blue tipped crescent to warm one up:

Then let it heat soak a bit, and nothing. Three heat soak cycles and still nothing. Am I doing this wrong by trying to unscrew it?

I am trying to make one nice shelf queen, since both of these have bad coils and the primers are decayed to nothing. They have never cut wood, they were used as trainers in schools back in the '60s and have washers welded to all the 10-24 screws so I am replacing them as I go along. For some reason the studs were cut short on the block I want to keep, since it has compression and the other block with good studs has no rings on the piston. Never seen a stud that would not unscrew with heat before.

 

[Basher]

Nope, I think you will find the heads are square and actually cast in to the crankcase, non removable like several other IEL and Pioneer saws. Re threading was an option and Pioneer made available longer sleeved nuts to reach far enough on over the existing studs to catch on the non stripped threads closer to the bar pad.

 

[stihl #1]

That thought crossed my mind but then I thought, "nooo they wouldn't do that!"
This has been fun...
Thanks Basher