Hybrid clonesaw 365 with a 390 topend - aka the "86'r from youtube"

[Ketchup]

You will probably have to cut the corner off the top few fins where the plug wire goes.

 

[upstateamish]

You will probably have to cut the corner off the top few fins where the plug wire goes.

hmm, possibly I did test fit it earlier when I was messing around with the top and the wiring appeared to not get pinched (but I'll double check)


Tonight has taken longer than expected as I've spent it modifying parts/messing around to get things working with the intake...

After building some custom parts for the last round I had ordered all the correct things for this one... (e.g. the 390 intake boot and bolts, a farmertec metal throttle cable holder, etc) but reviewing my notes / orders it appears they were out of stock and I was refunded ... and I got side tracked and never ordered the parts again.

So, I was able to use a 372 boot. (but because it needs to be an angle I trimmed where the impulse line would go (which is fine as it now comes through the floor plate) And digging through my parts I found some bolts which were the correct length (but a larger diameter) so maybe from a 285, anyway I drilled the x-torq filter holder and tapped my metal throttle cable holder to match / fit...

And now I've got the 395 carb in place (Oh, I also modified the carb's choke lever opening so the x-torq choke lever will fit)





Now to get everything glued down / more things put together

 

[upstateamish]

You will probably have to cut the corner off the top few fins where the plug wire goes.

you're correct I modified the corner so theres no wire rub


Muffler bolts up without issue (I'll be adding the addtional opening on this like the other saw)


and I have to trim the chain brake handle to clear the top cover but it's starting to look like a saw





if I get those last couple things done I may try and fire it up this afternoon and see if all the work I've done (e.g. crankrod, piston, etc) blows up in catastrophic fasion

 

[Ketchup]

You will probably have to cut the corner off the top few fins where the plug wire goes.

There’s an existing problem where the plug wire wears against the top cylinder fin. That’s why the top cover has that little snap-in space. But with the higher jug the cylinder rubs the wire even clipped in the cover. You can squish it all together, but it will chew the wire up pretty quickly.

Edit: Haha. You’re one step ahead of me. Looking good!

 

[Rich Fife]

I'm Loving this Build. Great Job man!!!

 

[upstateamish]

There’s an existing problem where the plug wire wears against the top cylinder fin. That’s why the top cover has that little snap-in space. But with the higher jug the cylinder rubs the wire even clipped in the cover. You can squish it all together, but it will chew the wire up pretty quickly.

Edit: Haha. You’re one step ahead of me. Looking good!

Yup I did clearance the top cover in this area, but as you note the higher jug means that the wiring gets pulled and could be pinched (I noticed that it's tight on my prior build so I'll have go back and check / clearance that one as well)

I'm Loving this Build. Great Job man!!!

Thanks! I know there are areas I can improve and will make those adjustments on the next itteration. I appreciate everyone's input/insight as I move through the builds!

 

[upstateamish]

On my lunch break I was able to take a few minutes and get the brake handle clearanced. Since I'll be pulling off the muffler anyway, I'll add the second port then*.



Only had a few minutes after that getting the brake handle clearanced but put some gas in it, pulled it over and it fired it up! Ran at high idle (sounds ok) but dies out at idle, I assume i'll have to mess with the carb settings a bit (as I did the last one)

I didn't advance timing on this but maybe that's something I'll have to look into as well.

still having it fire up and restarting easily is a positive sign for me!

One thing I did note as I was putting things together is the 372 oil gear was loose (where the top hat would have gone) I greased/shimmed the gap with some thin plastic. I dug through some illustrated parts lists on the 390 but I'm not 100% sure if the 390 oiler gear might be slightly smaller sized than the 372 or since it's aftermarket if I just happen to have a very loose oiler gear?

Later on today I'll try and get it to run a bit better and get some video of it idling.

 

[upstateamish]

Ok, some tweaking of the carb and it runs! (and honestly, I think pretty good) but the temp is dropping and it's super windy in just a sweatchirt too cold for me to be outside longer so I'm holding on more testing for the day but I'm pretty excited!

*edit I plan to pull the muffler and add the second opening on it tonight & I'll do some heat cycles tomorrow to see how it goes

 

[Woodwackr]

Ok, some tweaking of the carb and it runs! (and honestly, I think pretty good) but the temp is dropping and it's super windy in just a sweatchirt too cold for me to be outside longer so I'm holding on more testing for the day but I'm pretty excited!

*edit I plan to pull the muffler and add the second opening on it tonight & I'll do some heat cycles tomorrow to see how it goes

Looks like the vibration is a whole lot less then the first attempt.

 

[upstateamish]

Last night I pulled the exhaust off to check out the piston (still looks good to me) and opened up the exhaust.





Heat cycled it for about 15 minutes on my lunch break (this was after about 10 minutes of idle)

 

[upstateamish]

So the weather warmed up a bit today and I was able to get some good intital cutting vids. I realize I don't have many (any?) stock saws. The closest I have a stock saw is an ms500i I bought that needed a crank case half, and I put back together but added a west coast saw foam filter. (I have a frankensaw 500i that I built with a 660 piston but I wanted to try and get a example of what someone with a stock ms500i might have vrs the 86r

I'm also new to the video editing realm but have managed to get a side by side cut comparison built out. (I note during video review that my chain was a bit loose during the cut)

I ordered a 3 pack of Dukes Blue Label skip tooth chain (3/8 - 0.50 - 84DL) I haven't had a chance to use yet, and a 24" bar so I thought it'd be a good apples to apples test. New chain on each saw


The wood is ash which was standing dead when I cut it (so pretty hard stuff)

My 2nd prototype was not playing nice in the tuning side of things and I think has developed an air leak (so I didn't get a 'good' cutting video I could use for side by side purposes (but it also wouldn't really be a good comparison video as it's not broken in yet, so the ring hasn't seated in the cylinder) I also fat fingered what I thought was turning on video but turned out to be just be taking a still shot. I think I noted that I'm new to this

Side by side test of Prototype #1 & the Ms 500i

Full clip of the prototype #1

Full clip of ms 500i

short clip of the prototype #2 but sadly it needs more testing/checking over for air leaks.

 

[upstateamish]

I was able to get some stuff sort of tuned on the 2nd prototype and get some video. As I'm learning how to do video editing I got pulled into that rabbit hole doing side by side comparisons.

It's still not tuned 100% and not cutting on the same log. Next steps will be doing apressure / leak test as I'm not 100% on the clutch side seal and to pull the carb off to go through it. Currently when attempting to adjust it, the high/low jet needle springs are dragging / catching (or have memory) making it hard to get fine adjustments. I suspect vibration of the saw may be allowing the jets to move as well.

Note on the skip tooth chain: While I definitely felt some chatter in the ash, I didn't feel like the saws lacked for power to pull it. I do think I would use skip tooth in soft wood vrs hardwood. But I had never tried it out and it was what I had on hand do an apples to apple scomparison.

 

[Woodwackr]

I was able to get some stuff sort of tuned on the 2nd prototype and get some video. As I'm learning how to do video editing I got pulled into that rabbit hole doing side by side comparisons.

It's still not tuned 100% and not cutting on the same log. Next steps will be doing apressure / leak test as I'm not 100% on the clutch side seal and to pull the carb off to go through it. Currently when attempting to adjust it, the high/low jet needle springs are dragging / catching (or have memory) making it hard to get fine adjustments. I suspect vibration of the saw may be allowing the jets to move as well.

Note on the skip tooth chain: While I definitely felt some chatter in the ash, I didn't feel like the saws lacked for power to pull it. I do think I would use skip tooth in soft wood vrs hardwood. But I had never tried it out and it was what I had on hand do an apples to apple scomparison.

So, P1, 500i, P2?

 

[Ketchup]

P2 is looking good. All that crank and case work paid off. Where did your final numbers land?

 

[upstateamish]

So, P1, 500i, P2?

Correct

P2 is looking good. All that crank and case work paid off. Where did your final numbers land?

Thanks! I am fairly happy with how it's turning out. It's been a testing theory project

Forgot to post the numbers (took these as I stuck things together) but left my notes in the garage:
squish - 0.018 - 0.022" (+/- with the dome)
exhaust - 96.6°
transfers - 121.4°
intake - 81°

Now that its run a for a little bit I'll measure the squish to check where it's landing with the sealent/gasket seated. although I'm running echo red armor but long term I might want take a bit more off the piston to accommodate carbon build up (or next round do a flat top piston to hit numbers easier.)

I'm thinking about building (or buying) a chamber cutter as well instead of using the sandpaper approach, something that would give a bit more precision on depth and angle of cut