Husqvarna 564xp (g) fuel inject

[cuinrearview]

Both.
Even the highest quality bearing won't last when exposed to loads too high and lubrication less than optimal.
The 372 XT is an example. Its had some bearing issues while the OE 372 very rarely had issues and they are basicly the same saws minus the strato feature.

Adding new/different variables to justify your cop out answer does not answer. Were the 562 bearings not junk or not "ultra reliable"? It's a simple question.

 

[cuinrearview]

I have seen a grand total of 1 372 XT with a failed bearing, and it wasn't even the cage; the balls started to flake. I have seen quite a few with wallowed bearing pockets, indicating that the crankcases weren't at all built with a strato piston in mind.

Did you see this in person, on your bench, or on the internet?

 

[EFSM]

Did you see this in person, on your bench, or on the internet?

On my bench; I don't watch videos of other people working on saws. It drives me insane.

 

[bwalker]

I have seen a grand total of 1 372 XT with a failed bearing, and it wasn't even the cage; the balls started to flake. I have seen quite a few with wallowed bearing pockets, indicating that the crankcases weren't at all built with a strato piston in mind.

??

Wallowed out bearing pockets are typically caused by the crank flexing, which makes sense given the heavy pistons.

 

[bwalker]

Adding new/different variables to justify your cop out answer does not answer. Were the 562 bearings not junk or not "ultra reliable"? It's a simple question.

To dumb it down... Part failures are not always due to quality because design elements and other factors have a say.

 

[EFSM]

Wallowed out bearing pockets are typically caused by the crank flexing, which makes sense given the heavy pistons.

Oh sure. This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for pointing this out. I retract all my previous statements.
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Actually, on the other hand,.... I'm not buying the idea of crank flex until you give at least a shred of evidence. Maybe a bent crank could cause wallowing, but do you really think a crank could flex that significantly for hundreds of hours without breaking? Crankshafts aren't exactly flexible. Besides, crank bearings are loose enough that there can be a little bit of discrepancy in alignment without the balls binding.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Personally think it’s many factors, bottom end is on the light side for application, 50:1 probably isn’t quite enough oil on a stratto saw, bearing design/brand could be part of it since it’s been changed a few times. I’m also sure the cranks do flex some under certain instances but think it’s more likely they were sometimes assembled poorly and either indexed improperly or too much run out maybe both. I know tree monkey has explained about straightning out cranks that came out of running saws when he ported them. But these are just thoughts and opinions just like I like plastic cage bearings but some people despise them because they think they’re failure prone and only used because they’re cheaper.

 

[cuinrearview]

To dumb it down.

No, let me dumb it down: you either can't, or won't answer the very simple question.

 

[bwalker]

Oh sure. This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for pointing this out. I retract all my previous statements.
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.
.
.
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Actually, on the other hand,.... I'm not buying the idea of crank flex until you give at least a shred of evidence. Maybe a bent crank could cause wallowing, but do you really think a crank could flex that significantly for hundreds of hours without breaking? Crankshafts aren't exactly flexible. Besides, crank bearings are loose enough that there can be a little bit of discrepancy in alignment without the balls binding.

Its not bending. Its constantly flexing with each stroke. In certain engines, the Suzuki LT500r being one, bearing pocket liners are often fitted to help with this. Jerry Hall uses some sort of plastic to do this. So yeah, its a thing. Of course other things may cause it too.

LT250 LT500HQ-Jerry Hall wisdom

These WILL be the 2 biggest and baddest posts you will ever read. It is all of the important Jerry Hall posts from another website. All are in order e

www.tapatalk.com

 

[bwalker]

No, let me dumb it down: you either can't, or won't answer the very simple question.

I answered your question.

 

[EFSM]

Its not bending. Its constantly flexing with each stroke. In certain engines, the Suzuki LT500r being one, bearing pocket liners are often fitted to help with this. Jerry Hall uses some sort of plastic to do this. So yeah, its a thing. Of course other things may cause it too.

LT250 LT500HQ-Jerry Hall wisdom

These WILL be the 2 biggest and baddest posts you will ever read. It is all of the important Jerry Hall posts from another website. All are in order e

www.tapatalk.com

Very interesting read, thanks for linking that. Echo uses steel pocket liners in their CS-620/600/590 model saws. I always figured that the wallowed pockets that Husqvarna struggles with are due to their alloy composition in the crankcases. I am open to other suggestions but still haven’t seen any evidence for flexing cranks. I still believe that flexing cranks would break over time and I’ve never seen that on a 372.
Enough derailment of this thread. I bow out.

 

[bwalker]

Very interesting read, thanks for linking that. Echo uses steel pocket liners in their CS-620/600/590 model saws. I always figured that the wallowed pockets that Husqvarna struggles with are due to their alloy composition in the crankcases. I am open to other suggestions but still haven’t seen any evidence for flexing cranks. I still believe that flexing cranks would break over time and I’ve never seen that on a 372.
Enough derailment of this thread. I bow out.

Are you seeing this with 372 XT only?

 

[Stump Shot]

As far as bearing failures go in the 562PXP(and 550XP) are concerned, bench analysis has attributed the retainer cage failures due to heat. In the pile of 562XP's I've gone through, this was the case every single time and has been well documented for years now, but I'll go through the scenario one more time here... it comes down to an operator unwilling to quit cutting with a dull chain heating up the bar and overtaxing the saw. The bar pad transfers the excess heat to the case which happens to have the bearing pocket right next to it. This then melts the cage enough to fall apart; all the bearing balls go to one side causing the seal to leak air until the top end seizes. Operators that keep a sharp chain do not have these types of failures.
As far as bearing pocket failures go, this too can be contributed to heat. I actually see way more 385/390XP saws with this failure than the 372XPXT and/or the OE for that matter. All of these saw's experience ZERO crankshaft breakage, thus eliminating the "flex" theory of a motorcycle engine. What is seen is too tight dull chains with burnt bars. And just how do we take a saw case apart, heat it up, the bearing will fall right out. Surely manufacturer specs have a part to play, we can see that the earliest versions had much more problems than that of later ones that came out.
So, in conclusion, we can say that if you want to keep your XP saw in good running order, run a properly tensioned and sharpened chain and you won't have these issues, don't want to quit cutting with that dull chain and you'll be visiting your saw shop real soon. No amount of oil ratio or secret blend will save you.
My conclusions come from actual case by case saws that I've repaired along the way. I have not seen a 564XP yet to even begin to comment on how it is built, I can only say that the subsequent 572XP and 592XP are faring much better having enjoyed a long R&D period prior to launching. The 564XP from what a Husqvarna rep has publicly said has also gone under such scrutiny, so, it at least has that going for it, as well as the under the hood sneak peaks we have seen, it looks nothing like a 562XP.

 

[bwalker]

As far as bearing failures go in the 562PXP(and 550XP) are concerned, bench analysis has attributed the retainer cage failures due to heat. In the pile of 562XP's I've gone through, this was the case every single time and has been well documented for years now, but I'll go through the scenario one more time here... it comes down to an operator unwilling to quit cutting with a dull chain heating up the bar and overtaxing the saw. The bar pad transfers the excess heat to the case which happens to have the bearing pocket right next to it. This then melts the cage enough to fall apart; all the bearing balls go to one side causing the seal to leak air until the top end seizes. Operators that keep a sharp chain do not have these types of failures.
As far as bearing pocket failures go, this too can be contributed to heat. I actually see way more 385/390XP saws with this failure than the 372XPXT and/or the OE for that matter. All of these saw's experience ZERO crankshaft breakage, thus eliminating the "flex" theory of a motorcycle engine. What is seen is too tight dull chains with burnt bars. And just how do we take a saw case apart, heat it up, the bearing will fall right out. Surely manufacturer specs have a part to play, we can see that the earliest versions had much more problems than that of later ones that came out.
So, in conclusion, we can say that if you want to keep your XP saw in good running order, run a properly tensioned and sharpened chain and you won't have these issues, don't want to quit cutting with that dull chain and you'll be visiting your saw shop real soon. No amount of oil ratio or secret blend will save you.
My conclusions come from actual case by case saws that I've repaired along the way. I have not seen a 564XP yet to even begin to comment on how it is built, I can only say that the subsequent 572XP and 592XP are faring much better having enjoyed a long R&D period prior to launching. The 564XP from what a Husqvarna rep has publicly said has also gone under such scrutiny, so, it at least has that going for it, as well as the under the hood sneak peaks we have seen, it looks nothing like a 562XP.

Flexing crankshaft rarely break. They just are not rigid enough. You could be absolutely right on the heat thing.
Have you seen any 550,562, and 372xt fail when ran at 32:1?
Lastly, I am glad you posted this. At least we can out the low quality bearing thing to rest.

 

[Stump Shot]

Flexing crankshaft rarely break. They just are not rigid enough. You could be absolutely right on the heat thing.
Have you seen any 550,562, and 372xt fail when ran at 32:1?
Lastly, I am glad you posted this. At least we can out the low quality bearing thing to rest.

Quote from your source- "Crankshaft flexing is what wears out the bearing pockets. The majority of the flex occurs in the crank pin. Another area of flex is at the junction of the main bearing shaft and the crank web. How do we know that these areas flex? These are the two areas where the crankshaft breaks."
I'm never fully privy to the exact ratio other folks run, however, I can see that oil is present in the crankcase and say whatever it was, it was sufficient.
Lastly that makes one of us... so far. LOL

 

[bwalker]

Quote from your source- "Crankshaft flexing is what wears out the bearing pockets. The majority of the flex occurs in the crank pin. Another area of flex is at the junction of the main bearing shaft and the crank web. How do we know that these areas flex? These are the two areas where the crankshaft breaks."
I'm never fully privy to the exact ratio other folks run, however, I can see that oil is present in the crankcase and say whatever it was, it was sufficient.
Lastly that makes one of us... so far. LOL

The crankshaft in question run for years flexing like that. Very rarely break. Its hard to stress enough how heavy those pistons and cranks are. The bore and stroke is 86mmx86mm.

 

[Stump Shot]

Bearings on the saw spin around and around...

 

[EFSM]

Are you seeing this with 372 XT only?

I have seen it on a Husqvarna concrete saw too, probably a K760 although that was years ago. Otherwise yes, only 372 XT. Seeing it only on Husqvarna products, along with their Mg stamp on the crankcases, has me thinking that the magnesium content is, or was, plenty high.

As far as bearing pocket failures go, this too can be contributed to heat. I actually see way more 385/390XP saws with this failure than the 372XPXT and/or the OE for that matter.

I work on very few 390 chassis saws compared to 372. Interesting.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

As far as bearing failures go in the 562PXP(and 550XP) are concerned, bench analysis has attributed the retainer cage failures due to heat. In the pile of 562XP's I've gone through, this was the case every single time and has been well documented for years now, but I'll go through the scenario one more time here... it comes down to an operator unwilling to quit cutting with a dull chain heating up the bar and overtaxing the saw. The bar pad transfers the excess heat to the case which happens to have the bearing pocket right next to it. This then melts the cage enough to fall apart; all the bearing balls go to one side causing the seal to leak air until the top end seizes. Operators that keep a sharp chain do not have these types of failures.
As far as bearing pocket failures go, this too can be contributed to heat. I actually see way more 385/390XP saws with this failure than the 372XPXT and/or the OE for that matter. All of these saw's experience ZERO crankshaft breakage, thus eliminating the "flex" theory of a motorcycle engine. What is seen is too tight dull chains with burnt bars. And just how do we take a saw case apart, heat it up, the bearing will fall right out. Surely manufacturer specs have a part to play, we can see that the earliest versions had much more problems than that of later ones that came out.
So, in conclusion, we can say that if you want to keep your XP saw in good running order, run a properly tensioned and sharpened chain and you won't have these issues, don't want to quit cutting with that dull chain and you'll be visiting your saw shop real soon. No amount of oil ratio or secret blend will save you.
My conclusions come from actual case by case saws that I've repaired along the way. I have not seen a 564XP yet to even begin to comment on how it is built, I can only say that the subsequent 572XP and 592XP are faring much better having enjoyed a long R&D period prior to launching. The 564XP from what a Husqvarna rep has publicly said has also gone under such scrutiny, so, it at least has that going for it, as well as the under the hood sneak peaks we have seen, it looks nothing like a 562XP.

This must be why the guys I cut with and myself don't have the bearing problems. We are chain sharpening fools!, but honestly once you get used to a sharp chain it ruins you.
I've worked on square 066/064s with bad nylon cages.

 

[bwalker]

This must be why the guys I cut with and myself don't have the bearing problems. We are chain sharpening fools!, but honestly once you get used to a sharp chain it ruins you.
I've worked on square 066/064s with bad nylon cages.

And probably why I never had an issue with the very early 562 I owned.
There are guys that can eff up an anvil.