How to DIY a tool, putting case halves together WITHOUT A PRESS

[Mattyo]

For indexing depths I do get it. it certainly would be tricky if you truly have a depth you need to go to. OTOH, why would you want the bearing protruding into the crankcase at all? That doesn't seem to make sense from a design perspective. I know that the 660 bearing doesn't have a seat/stop on the outer part of the crankcase, and again... this doesn't make much engineering sense to me.

I'm gonna do another 660, but for the purposes of the china 660 builds, the bearings are already installed in the cases. So all I need to do is pull the crank through without heat next time.

Just did my sawmill bandwheels. Double stacked bearings. They press in, positive seat. Snap ring retention (as a double check). Basically no way to screw that up lol.

I'm cleaning off my bench now to see if I can do this 372 video right.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Yep. Oil pumps mounted in the case serve as proper stops. All clutch-side spacing (pump, worm gear, clutch washer, clutch, etc) is dependent on the depth being close to "perfect." The bearing wouldn't protrude too far into the case, but it's not quite as simple as having it flush.
I wonder how close the Chinese are to proper depth? Honestly there may be enough tolerance where it doesn't matter that much...

 

[Mattyo]

Hey, if they can get the bearing pocket diameter correct... then it stands to reason that depth is a ... more tolerant spec I think.

Just did the 372 crankcase. working on the vid now. china bearings out, nachi's in, crank in and halves together, all at room temp

 

[Crzybowhntr]

Matt - Do you sleep? lol

 

[Mattyo]

not much....
vid uploading now

 

[Mattyo]

372 crankcase assembly.... GOT IT

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Nice vid as always, man. I usually use case bolts to bring cases together. I think your way is a better option. C3 bearings should (should) be able to handle some lateral stress. Know anyone with bottom end failures due to bearing install issues?

 

[Mattyo]

I know most of the builders here may actually bring case halves together with the case bolts. Not sure you could quantify failures due to that issue...and even though there is lateral force, doesn't mean there is damage. But it really worries me #1, and #2, if ya can do it better, cheap and easy ... why not?

Saws fail for so many reasons, I just can't imagine you'd ever be able to properly diagnose that a bearing failed because it had flats on the balls after someone used a hammer to put it together hehe.

plenty of bottom end failures due to bearings, and as Walt has pointed out, many have been nylon cage. ... materials? oil? heat issue? who knows

 

[mdavlee]

See... that answer I can handle. Totally get that someone forced a bearing somewhere it shouldn't have been.

In my brain though, it makes even more sense to cold press the nylon cage bearings rather than heating those things up at all. I've done a 346xp and 385xp with heat... and if I have to do a proprietary bearing in the future I think i'd much rather cold press it.

I did it multiple times on that 262 chassis...and the bearing still sticks very well.

I've got a china 372xp coming up to do... i'm going to see if I can cold press new nachi's into it.

On those I put them on the crank first with light taps and then heat the case half up. Drop the bearings in the starter side with heat and then the crank with heat on the bearing. Then the other half out of the oven at 325 and it usually falls together then put bolts in.

 

[Mattyo]

I did a practice run last night with some junk bearings and chassis. Had my 6 year old daughter run the impact wrench. She giggled when the old bearing fell out...and then asked if we could do another hehe.

 

[sean silverwood]

I did a practice run last night with some junk bearings and chassis. Had my 6 year old daughter run the impact wrench. She giggled when the old bearing fell out...and then asked if we could do another hehe.

Hi Mate,
thanks for all the info you have been posting over on you tube.
my account over there is Thanxx

cheers

Sean.

ps/ making the tools today

 

[Mattyo]

NICE

and you are welcome!

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Here's one that I still think about-- (advocate for your method here)

My first case split was a 460. I used a combination of Lakeside, the manual, and Mastermind to get it done. While attempting to install the crank in the clutchside case bearing, I lost heat and the crank wouldn't seat. Instead of love taps or pulling it through, I had the bright idea to use more heat directly on the nylon bearing. It discolored just a bit before I came to my senses. After some choice words I decided to leave it and see. Well the saw is still alive but doesn't have a ton of run time. But on cold nights watching my fire, I'll occasionally think of that bearing and wonder ... lol.

 

[Mattyo]

yup.... i'd wonder too

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

yup.... i'd wonder too

Lol, yep. I'm tempted to split it open and replace it. I don't sell saws so if it dies it'll be in my hands.
Just finished another 460 (took a break from 1128s in favor of 1122s) and it went together perfectly. Your tools would have saved me in at least two other builds, tho.

 

[Mattyo]

Well....the tools are really easy to drill and tap and they don't even have to be perfectly done....so go for it...make yourself a set and next time you won't get frustrated or panicked.

If you don't have a tap and die set...and you work with saws, you really need one. Even the harbor freight set is probably fine, and it think it comes with m8x1.0 and m10x1.0 which are what you need for the flywheel sides of most saws. then all you need are the taps for the clutch side. 660 is m12x1.0LH which is available on ebay. I'm still waiting on mine and I ordered it at least a week ago, but I did get the tap and dies for the pro husky stuff ...m12x1.25LH and m14x1.25LH ... and obviously on the husky build video above they worked great. The tap isn't that expensive either, and would indeed help if suddenly you lost heat, got disctracted or stuck.

SHUCKS.... just found this tap ... m12x1.0LH ... only $5 shipped!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10mm-14mm-x...hash=item4899446f57:m:mDLf0y7FNfkz5FNrUUPe0OA

 

[Mattyo]

version 2.0 is up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[afleetcommand]

Here's one that I still think about-- (advocate for your method here)

My first case split was a 460. I used a combination of Lakeside, the manual, and Mastermind to get it done. While attempting to install the crank in the clutchside case bearing, I lost heat and the crank wouldn't seat. Instead of love taps or pulling it through, I had the bright idea to use more heat directly on the nylon bearing. It discolored just a bit before I came to my senses. After some choice words I decided to leave it and see. Well the saw is still alive but doesn't have a ton of run time. But on cold nights watching my fire, I'll occasionally think of that bearing and wonder ... lol.

On those cold days you can always use this method to put cases together....a Central New York Winter approach....while watching horizontal lake effect snow ...

 

[Mattyo]

I definitely think its impressive that Walt can get these cases together (and @jmssaws too) with heat and hands.... but I still think best practice for chassis assembly is going to be using sealant on the gasket (and/or cases) at room temp, and no lateral forced on bearings, and a controlled case closure to ensure things are lined up properly. Walt's point is that its possible to get these together VERY simply. Clearly he's proven that. But if best practiced is achievable with some simple diy tools, why not aim for that? Other than possibly inverting the seal on the PTO side, I cannot prove that Walt's method is to the detriment of anything, and like I've said before, a bajillion cases have been assembled in similar ways by guys that are WAY more experienced than me...and seem to be fine... It just worrys me.

 

[afleetcommand]

I definitely think its impressive that Walt can get these cases together (and @jmssaws too) with heat and hands.... but I still think best practice for chassis assembly is going to be using sealant on the gasket (and/or cases) at room temp, and no lateral forced on bearings, and a controlled case closure to ensure things are lined up properly. Walt's point is that its possible to get these together VERY simply. Clearly he's proven that. But if best practiced is achievable with some simple diy tools, why not aim for that? Other than possibly inverting the seal on the PTO side, I cannot prove that Walt's method is to the detriment of anything, and like I've said before, a bajillion cases have been assembled in similar ways by guys that are WAY more experienced than me...and seem to be fine... It just worrys me.

yep....same guy who squished those cases together, uses the Husqvarna shop tools "puller" on contract saws... But you know that. That video has been out for a year or two. Couple of points....the crank oiled & seal oiled reduces the chances of that thing inverting....but you have to deal with that as an issue regardless. The shop tools to install the seal supports the rubber "seal" not allowing it to fold out.Trust me...there are virtually no lateral or axial stresses on either the cases, bearings, or crank when the temps are right...and you can use heat to drop in bearings as well....BUT all the theory aside....sentence number one... OR heat..or what ever else strikes an interest at a given point in time.