From Another Part Of The Saw World, The Latest Muffler Mod Concept

[ManiacalMark]

Absolutely useless in the woods, great for blowing dirt up in your face and snapping the exhaust port off.

 

[stihl_head1982]

I banned him.....three times at least.

Well, at least you're consistent. Stability in an unstable world!

 

[stihl_head1982]

Anybody actually running one of these and experiencing gains? Need a younger pair of eyes to look over this video example.

 

[afleetcommand]

SO thru that up in the editor so I could "measure" times... Stock Muffler Averaged 5 seconds per cut with the fastest of the three cuts being 4 seconds plus a little. The Bark Box cuts averaged 5 seconds throwing out the "stall" cut. 6 seconds ave with stalls . BUT Like all these cookie video's that doesn't mean much. Things like the wood changing , chain wear , operator enthusiasm etc. He was pushing harder to bark that box, why the stall happened. What is obvious is the only significant change is he likes it becaus eof how it looks and sounds, it looks cool. So from that perspective, isn't that a win for bark box?

 

[stihl_head1982]

SO thru that up in the editor so I could "measure" times... Stock Muffler Averaged 5 seconds per cut with the fastest of the three cuts being 4 seconds plus a little. The Bark Box cuts averaged 5 seconds throwing out the "stall" cut. ^ seconds ave with stalls . BUT Like all these cookie video's that doesn't mean much. Things like the wood changing , chain wear , operator enthusiasm etc. He was pushing harder to bark that box, why the stall happened. What is obvious is the only significant change is he likes it becaus eof how it looks and sounds, it looks cool. So from that perspective, isn't that a win for bark box?

Yep if you like how it sounds -- I guess that's right. The thing that puzzles me, he removed a dual port cover. Then placed on the front the "bark box" which appears to be essentially the same outlet (without getting down to the thousandths of the opening) essentially the same type of solution. Then leans on the saw and does not get a time savings but a "fuzzy feel" that its better. Not much scientific data -- but plenty of "yeah we like this dude." Thanks for your analysis.

 

[cuinrearview]

Does the end of that screw off like a stove pipe cleanout?

 

[davidwyby]

Have y’all seen that video where the dude tests all the chains with a fixed weight on the end of the bar?

seems fair but some saws and chains might cut faster because they can take more pressure, which is up to operator feel...?

 

[afleetcommand]

Have y’all seen that video where the dude tests all the chains with a fixed weight on the end of the bar?

seems fair but some saws and chains might cut faster because they can take more pressure, which is up to operator feel...?

The point of a good operator is they can get the feel for a saw and run it how it cuts best, some make power at higher RPM than others and the operator finds the sweet spot with the combination of chain , chain grinds , "gearing" with sprocket, wood conditions, and power characteristics etc. I saw the "weight test and get endless messages about that as the only fair way....I reject that as a concept. Anyone who has "fanned" a clutch coming out of a corner on a 125 knows why. And I don't have time anymore to go into the physics of riding the power band, at some point it's just "OK" ... "whatever" ... and role on. I guess the reality is if that gets an answer that makes the person interested smile, its a good test.

 

[Stump Shot]

The concept for empty cans is typically labeled as "pressure cans" , a pressure rise defined by the volume / velocity / temperature of gas exiting the exhaust port, the volume of the can , and then pressure drop controlled by the exit diameter All timed right can actually help depending it matches the design of the REST of that gas pump of a motor right? As compared to the pipe which is about sucking more mixture out into the exhaust, then using pressure wave to jam pack it back in at the right time, all timed with the change in x-section over the length of the pipe "reflecting" the first negative then timed right positive pressure waves back at that poor little exhaust hole.

Both concepts are about scavenging and hoping to end up with more combustible mix in the combustion chamber when all the holes close right?? I think the "crack pipe" is about convincing you that motor has more mixture is in there and then should u disagree make enough noise no one can think straight enough to know!

I was actually asked to make a thing like the "crackin" to which I replied absolutely not. There's times when a work saw needs to remain so to maintain form and full functionality, over making a gimmicky type of trick that will overshadow all of your good works to the saw. My philosophy being to work with a saw as it is and improve its capabilities and still maintain a reasonable amount of fuel consumption and reliability as well as a better cut speed that everyone wants.
A lot of years ago, maybe 35 or so maybe, a friend of mine showed me a article in a trade(logger) magazine that showed a muffler that was short yet acted like a tuned pipe. Sorta looked like a bulbous cornucopia of sorts. I recall it being made in Scandinavia somewhere and the only person here that knows more about it than me is @Saw Troll. My friend was going to try to attempt to design one for his Stihl, but don't know if ever did as life got in the way after that. Anyways it did look like something ones brain could wrap around, but was somewhat complicated and something that would take some time and talent to hammer out properly, let alone get the harmonics right.
As for myself, I think I'll just keep doing what I do, if it ain't broke...

 

[afleetcommand]

I've seen concepts years back when "power valves" and the like were being used to try and tweak the exhaust tune real time on motorcycles both for racing and for epa, for an active system to replicate more precisely a tuned pipe. To try and get two strokes around emissions laws...along with active ignition and fuel injection. ALL went into cyber trash I'm sure. Point for me is the technology we have now effectively makes chips with stock saws. And with the major players advancing the state of the art with saws like 462,500i, 572's ; finally eclipsing functionality of saws like the ms440's and 372xp oe's with these new eco saws. It's hard for a back yard type to really do anything more that tweak someone else's design for better and sometimes worse. We have always had folks wanting a gimmick to sell into the community ... as with any motorized industry. Armed with influential entrepreneur's and the new online mediums we now have an active "bling" business in the saw world...stuff like this shows up BUT it's harmless. And fun for a lot of folks so I'm not going to be overly critical, in fact its fun watching bling merchants argue the merits of theirs over the other guys... For me if the purchaser is happy with what ever their metrics are,,,its all good right?

SOMETHING must be right or folks wouldn't be trying to "clone" it right??

 

[Ronie]

SO thru that up in the editor so I could "measure" times... Stock Muffler Averaged 5 seconds per cut with the fastest of the three cuts being 4 seconds plus a little. The Bark Box cuts averaged 5 seconds throwing out the "stall" cut. 6 seconds ave with stalls . BUT Like all these cookie video's that doesn't mean much. Things like the wood changing , chain wear , operator enthusiasm etc. He was pushing harder to bark that box, why the stall happened. What is obvious is the only significant change is he likes it becaus eof how it looks and sounds, it looks cool. So from that perspective, isn't that a win for bark box?

Thanks for taking the time to compare the times, I saw the video over on the muffler mod thread and had thought it was a little faster.

 

[afleetcommand]

You can "start and stop" the video capturing the running time your self, I took a video of the video and ran it back in the editor I use for my channel....got the time down to decimal places. Doesn't really matter if the dude likes the muffler. Even with the video as displayed with the time there isn't enough difference to argue about and could simply be chain wear, wood conditions, operator etc. He did stall it trying to get more out of the bark box. But really my point is this entire line of thought is over analysis. The "sharp chain" concept needs to be put in play as that is something a person can learn to do that makes the most difference. Costs files and elbow grease. And it's possible combining the bark box with other changes CAN make a definable difference, I don't know. But does it really matter?? I love my teaked saws but right now enjoy a Jonsered 80 and 70e more. SO have been working with them. Point is getting the task at hand done while having the best life experience is the NEW goal for me the retired guy. A slit second here or there doesn't matter AND sometimes the cost or cost in time to get it doesn't even cover the times saved for those OCD enough to try and measure. BUT the fun factor makes all these things worth while from building a nasty hot saw to restoring and old veteran saw back to working order..all good. All a part of the hobby. Message...lighten up! Enjoy this stuff while we can is the goal for me anymore. If a sawyer like a loud and audacious bark box why try and measure to justify it? Folks Like Harley Davidsons too!

 

[stihl_head1982]

You can "start and stop" the video capturing the running time your self, I took a video of the video and ran it back in the editor I use for my channel....got the time down to decimal places. Doesn't really matter if the dude likes the muffler. Even with the video as displayed with the time there isn't enough difference to argue about and could simply be chain wear, wood conditions, operator etc. He did stall it trying to get more out of the bark box. But really my point is this entire line of thought is over analysis. The "sharp chain" concept needs to be put in play as that is something a person can learn to do that makes the most difference. Costs files and elbow grease. And it's possible combining the bark box with other changes CAN make a definable difference, I don't know. But does it really matter?? I love my teaked saws but right now enjoy a Jonsered 80 and 70e more. SO have been working with them. Point is getting the task at hand done while having the best life experience is the NEW goal for me the retired guy. A slit second here or there doesn't matter AND sometimes the cost or cost in time to get it doesn't even cover the times saved for those OCD enough to try and measure. BUT the fun factor makes all these things worth while from building a nasty hot saw to restoring and old veteran saw back to working order..all good. All a part of the hobby. Message...lighten up! Enjoy this stuff while we can is the goal for me anymore. If a sawyer like a loud and audacious bark box why try and measure to justify it? Folks Like Harley Davidsons too!

Well said sir!

 

[Vice]

My wife will tell you my fart box is louder than any out there but she’s not getting any extra work out of me. After her chilly tonight I think I blew an Oring and will need a full tear down

 

[Czed]

 

[Red97]

Anybody actually running one of these and experiencing gains? Need a younger pair of eyes to look over this video example.

They gain close to .5hp over a stock front cover. 3-7% over the entire range. On 500i,661,462

Had the real bark box on, and the other competing face plate cover on the dyno.

 

[afleetcommand]

Not sure his video was stock vs. Bark Box. I think it was a Hyway vs. bark box. I didn't see in the times enough difference to matter. So really the take away from your post is both the Hyway and the other box thing are a power gain over a stock muffler right? And one thing that sticks with me is the years of dyno numbers done in the 1980's 1990's on the dirt bikes with aftermarket parts. Take away was sometimes the dyno did predict results on the track, but often times didn't in race results. What they were was a hell of a market tool as folks would take one dyno run of one set of parts pitched by an authoritative voice ( Magazines at the time ) as gospel on ALL those combinations regardless of the other things that go into the tune. I think a good question to ask is these Aftermarket options vs. poking a few holes intelligently in a stock muffler, how much difference does it really make? If the definition of win also includes a "look" and sound... some of these things are a win regardless of their performance over other options like building your own or Hyway "dual" port mufflers. But I can see another deep dive into percentage points to rationalize, justify, quantify, etc ultimately entrepreneurial , not a bad thing! Me? I just discovered a mid 1970's Husqvarna L77 is one sharp running saw! Going to invest a little of my short in supply time to explore those more..

 

[Czed]

Lot's of talented craftsmen on facebook

 

[afleetcommand]

Poor uneducated lot they are BUT everyone starts somewhere. And there are a lot of enthusiasts building pages on FB. That's good isn't it? This place has attracted the more experienced builder/hobby types, there are places developing on FB similar, and I suspect many will end up here over time. The real upside I see is folks engaging and are trying, in fact learning, to build their own stuff. And one thing for certain the kits saws have done is build a base of folks who now understand the skills required for the construction of saws, and that community has evolved to modification as mods are survival with those things. These posts on face book remind me of places like arboristsite years back. Some here were able to cut their now sharp teeth in that environment. Same thing is happening there on a grand scale. Good for the hobby in my most humble opinion.

 

[Red97]

sure his video was stock vs. Bark Box. I think it was a Hyway vs. bark box. I didn't see in the times enough difference to matter. So really the take away from your post is both the Hyway and the other box thing are a power gain over a stock muffler right? And one thing that sticks with me is the years of dyno numbers done in the 1980's 1990's on the dirt bikes with aftermarket parts. Take away was sometimes the dyno did predict results on the track, but often times didn't in race results. What they were was a hell of a market tool as folks would take one dyno run of one set of parts pitched by an authoritative voice ( Magazines at the time ) as gospel on ALL those combinations regardless of the other things that go into the tune. I think a good question to ask is these Aftermarket options vs. poking a few holes intelligently in a stock muffler, how much difference does it really make? If the definition of win also includes a "look" and sound... some of these things are a win regardless of their performance over other options like building your own or Hyway "dual" port mufflers. But I can see another deep dive into percentage points to rationalize, justify, quantify, etc ultimately entrepreneurial , not a bad thing! Me? I just discovered a mid 1970's Husqvarna L77 is one sharp running saw! Going to invest a little of my short in supply time to explore those more..

Didn't have a dual port to check against.
All my tests were done on the newer stihls, without the hyway/factory dual port.

About the same gain as adding a deflector etc. Nothing extra, just depends on what look you want