I really don't think Echo has ever really tried to get hung up In the "our saws are better than their saws" scene, true, their saws are choked up from the factory, and some models I wouldn't even consider, but there is a few in the line up, that with little work, become very good saws, am I a "echo only" guy, hell no, but I do own several certain models that I'm in no rush to sell, am I sold on strat saws or autotune saws, hell no, I've actually gone back to old school designs, I still feel it comforting to see that echo still has a couple saws in the line up that have been around for nearly thirty years, the 670/680 and the 800/8000, both very well built saws, and again, with little work become excellent saws, and I must lastly say with all do respect, I'm just an average firewood hack, otherwise my outlook might be a bit different......but not much......