Echo CS-590 Hard to start - Low Compression

[Blueacre]

Yes I do plan to do a leak test before finalizing repairs - just wanted to do a quick compression test to check if the 40 pound test the dealer got was wtong

 

[FergusonTO35]

Did you register the warranty on the Echo website when you bought the saw? Being sold on clearance has zilch to do with the warranty, as long as you are the original buyer. Sounds like your dealer wants this to be a customer pay job.

 

[Cooper264]

I dont know about saws but i know with power tools like Milwaukee they want a proof of purchase before doing warranty work. I have had a few lengthy conversations with reps from them and they say where you bought them and what you paid for them is irrelevant. Only thing that matters is that you can show you purchased them so they can verify that you purchased the tool or battery within the warranty period. In my experience, they started my warranty period when i purchased items off ebay, not when the seller first purchased them. I would politely tell your dealer to how you say "shove it"

 

[Blueacre]

I do have the receipt for the saw from home depot and gave a copy to the dealer.

I am pretty sure I registered it on the Echo website when I bought it but there doesn't seem to be a way to check that on the website - no log in to see what items you have registered like the Dewalt site has for all my Dewalt tools.

I am going to contact the Echo rep for my area and see what they have to say.

 

[Steve]

I do have the receipt for the saw from home depot and gave a copy to the dealer.

I am pretty sure I registered it on the Echo website when I bought it but there doesn't seem to be a way to check that on the website - no log in to see what items you have registered like the Dewalt site has for all my Dewalt tools.

I am going to contact the Echo rep for my area and see what they have to say.

Careful with that. Since you have already tampered with the saw, you may have voided the warranty. At this point, your time may just be better spent cleaning everything up, reassembling, tuning, and run the balls off it!

 

[Pincher]

Whats it gonna hurt informing them of usefull information. Sometimes I have gotten better than expected results from a manufacturer, other times been pretty much blown off.

 

[Ford3000]

Did you register the warranty on the Echo website when you bought the saw? Being sold on clearance has zilch to do with the warranty, as long as you are the original buyer. Sounds like your dealer wants this to be a customer pay job.

That’s correct, warranty is with Echo, not the dealer who sold the saw.
But am sure there are consumer rights too, you can’t sell a product
that’s not as described or fit for purpose, and outside the actual Echo warranty
here in Ireland you can claim for a refund under the not fit for purpose clause,
without ever claiming off the Echo warranty, I had to go that road once as when
I took my saw to the dealer, he said it’s between me and Echo, and wanted to put
me on the phone to Echo, can you imagine the hassle that could have entailed,
I choose the path of least resistance in my case.
Am not knocking the 5year warranty, but a lot of people have difficulty with it,
and my dealer just dropped me in it with Echo, that painted a picture I was not
keen on, I never buy now based on warranty, there was a time when people stood by what they sold, looked into a problem and if you didn’t straight gas your saw
you got repairs for free, but all too many now immediately blame your mix and
don’t care at all that it wasn’t the case, I worked in a hire shop and every day I saw people destroy two strokes with straight gas, but when you don’t do this and
are blamed in the wrong it destroys any confidence in the warranty and the dealer.

 

[FergusonTO35]

All my new Echo machines were purchased as discounted overstock items. Never had to use the warranty on them thank goodness. Even if I did and it got turned down, I paid a low enough price for them that it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

If your dealer did the comp test with the decomp pressed you need to find a new dealer.

 

[whitesnake]

Decomp was first thing I noticed when I looked at pics. I know I've seen top ends in much worse shape running well with good compression. It's not here in front of me so hard to say, but I have a strange feeling test was done with decomp open.

 

[whitesnake]

Oh, and I'm not a fan of decomps. Esp on smaller saws.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Me neither, just one more thing to go wrong. I'm the kind of guy who would press the decomp button by habit when checking compression and then order a piston and jug based on that!

 

[Blueacre]

Update on CS590 Hard to Start - Quite a few developments in the last 8 days.

I decided to contact Echo Canada corporate office. ( I live in Ontario Canada near Niagara Falls). Started by asking why the dealer had said there was no warranty for a Home Depot clearance sale saw. The rep I talked to said that wasn't the case - the only time there would be no warranty is if the saw was returned used to Home Depot or if the saw had been damaged during shipping or in the store prior to being sold. Neither applied in my case so the Echo Rep confirmed I did have the normal warranty.

I then told him about my experience with their local dealer who first told me there was no warranty and then diagnosed the saw as having 40lb compression and requiring new cylinder and piston. Told him I had pulled the cylinder based on the dealer's findings and didn't find any significant damage to either the piston or cylinder. The Echo rep decided he wanted to get a second opinion. He later contacted me to drop the saw off at another dealer in my area that he had made arrangements with to get the second opinion.

Dropped if off mid last week and got a call from the dealer last Friday that the saw was fixed and ready to pick up, just had to come in and pay the bill. That surprised me since I was under the impression the Echo rep was covering the cost of the second opinion. Apparently there was some confusion between the Echo rep and the Deale. The Dealer thought they had the OK from the rep to go ahead and do repairs and not just a diagnosis.

Anyways this Dealer found the saw had good compression (pretty clear now the first dealer had to have checked the compression with decomp pushed in ???) They attributed the hard starting to fuel issues - blamed it on stale fuel. (Even though I had run 5 or 6 tanks of no ethanol premium gas through it this year that I purchased less than a month ago). They replaced fuel filter, flushed fuel lines and new spark plug.

Even though fuel issues are not covered by warranty the Echo rep agreed to cover the labor for this work since there was a misunderstanding with the dealer who went ahead with repairs rather than just doing a diagnosis. All I had to pay for was the fuel filter, spark plug, a tank full of premixed fuel and a few other small items.

I am very happy with how this turned out and the great cooperation and support I got from the Echo corporate rep.

Cant say as much for the first Dealer I took the saw to. Went to see them today and requested a refund on cost of the first diagnosis - showed them a copy of the report from the second dealer that found compression OK and no problem with the piston or cylinder. Didn't get a very warm reception, first reaction was so what ! second comment was we don't work for free ! I just kept repeating that I wasn't prepared to pay for their time to incorrectly diagnose a problem. After about 15 minutes I finally got the refund and left - wont be dealing with them again for sure.

 

[Ford3000]

Update on CS590 Hard to Start - Quite a few developments in the last 8 days.

I decided to contact Echo Canada corporate office. ( I live in Ontario Canada near Niagara Falls). Started by asking why the dealer had said there was no warranty for a Home Depot clearance sale saw. The rep I talked to said that wasn't the case - the only time there would be no warranty is if the saw was returned used to Home Depot or if the saw had been damaged during shipping or in the store prior to being sold. Neither applied in my case so the Echo Rep confirmed I did have the normal warranty.

I then told him about my experience with their local dealer who first told me there was no warranty and then diagnosed the saw as having 40lb compression and requiring new cylinder and piston. Told him I had pulled the cylinder based on the dealer's findings and didn't find any significant damage to either the piston or cylinder. The Echo rep decided he wanted to get a second opinion. He later contacted me to drop the saw off at another dealer in my area that he had made arrangements with to get the second opinion.

Dropped if off mid last week and got a call from the dealer last Friday that the saw was fixed and ready to pick up, just had to come in and pay the bill. That surprised me since I was under the impression the Echo rep was covering the cost of the second opinion. Apparently there was some confusion between the Echo rep and the Deale. The Dealer thought they had the OK from the rep to go ahead and do repairs and not just a diagnosis.

Anyways this Dealer found the saw had good compression (pretty clear now the first dealer had to have checked the compression with decomp pushed in ???) They attributed the hard starting to fuel issues - blamed it on stale fuel. (Even though I had run 5 or 6 tanks of no ethanol premium gas through it this year that I purchased less than a month ago). They replaced fuel filter, flushed fuel lines and new spark plug.

Even though fuel issues are not covered by warranty the Echo rep agreed to cover the labor for this work since there was a misunderstanding with the dealer who went ahead with repairs rather than just doing a diagnosis. All I had to pay for was the fuel filter, spark plug, a tank full of premixed fuel and a few other small items.

I am very happy with how this turned out and the great cooperation and support I got from the Echo corporate rep.

Cant say as much for the first Dealer I took the saw to. Went to see them today and requested a refund on cost of the first diagnosis - showed them a copy of the report from the second dealer that found compression OK and no problem with the piston or cylinder. Didn't get a very warm reception, first reaction was so what ! second comment was we don't work for free ! I just kept repeating that I wasn't prepared to pay for their time to incorrectly diagnose a problem. After about 15 minutes I finally got the refund and left - wont be dealing with them again for sure.

Good to hear you got sorted. I hate it when they blame fuel when you know
you got good fuel and mixed it right. But they had to blame something when they
found no other problem, maybe use some Aspen premix just until your sure the saw is actually running and starting as it should, you won’t really know unless you put it through it’s paces, and to rule out bad pump gas using premix would be a good idea, that will clear up any future it’s the fuel issues.

 

[Ford3000]

@Blueacre , just re read your initial post, you mentioned that during the hard to
start sessions after being off for 10 to 15 minutes, that the de comp never popped during all the pulling until the saw started, may be it was sticking all along, and may be the reason too that the first dealer got low compression during testing.

If your hard starting comes back, don’t use the de comp and see how you get on,
you said the saw kicks after two pulls on choke and starts after two more, so you
won’t be pulling too long in any event.

 

[Cooper264]

Update on CS590 Hard to Start - Quite a few developments in the last 8 days.

I decided to contact Echo Canada corporate office. ( I live in Ontario Canada near Niagara Falls). Started by asking why the dealer had said there was no warranty for a Home Depot clearance sale saw. The rep I talked to said that wasn't the case - the only time there would be no warranty is if the saw was returned used to Home Depot or if the saw had been damaged during shipping or in the store prior to being sold. Neither applied in my case so the Echo Rep confirmed I did have the normal warranty.

I then told him about my experience with their local dealer who first told me there was no warranty and then diagnosed the saw as having 40lb compression and requiring new cylinder and piston. Told him I had pulled the cylinder based on the dealer's findings and didn't find any significant damage to either the piston or cylinder. The Echo rep decided he wanted to get a second opinion. He later contacted me to drop the saw off at another dealer in my area that he had made arrangements with to get the second opinion.

Dropped if off mid last week and got a call from the dealer last Friday that the saw was fixed and ready to pick up, just had to come in and pay the bill. That surprised me since I was under the impression the Echo rep was covering the cost of the second opinion. Apparently there was some confusion between the Echo rep and the Deale. The Dealer thought they had the OK from the rep to go ahead and do repairs and not just a diagnosis.

Anyways this Dealer found the saw had good compression (pretty clear now the first dealer had to have checked the compression with decomp pushed in ???) They attributed the hard starting to fuel issues - blamed it on stale fuel. (Even though I had run 5 or 6 tanks of no ethanol premium gas through it this year that I purchased less than a month ago). They replaced fuel filter, flushed fuel lines and new spark plug.

Even though fuel issues are not covered by warranty the Echo rep agreed to cover the labor for this work since there was a misunderstanding with the dealer who went ahead with repairs rather than just doing a diagnosis. All I had to pay for was the fuel filter, spark plug, a tank full of premixed fuel and a few other small items.

I am very happy with how this turned out and the great cooperation and support I got from the Echo corporate rep.

Cant say as much for the first Dealer I took the saw to. Went to see them today and requested a refund on cost of the first diagnosis - showed them a copy of the report from the second dealer that found compression OK and no problem with the piston or cylinder. Didn't get a very warm reception, first reaction was so what ! second comment was we don't work for free ! I just kept repeating that I wasn't prepared to pay for their time to incorrectly diagnose a problem. After about 15 minutes I finally got the refund and left - wont be dealing with them again for sure.

I wouldn't doubt something else was fugged up from manufacturing. Thats why they blamed fuel. I'm not big on dealers, not many of the ones around here are worth a dam or trust worthy. Thats why I like older saws that I can work on without a computer or scan tool. Good to hear she's back up and kicking

 

[Cooper264]

@Blueacre , just re read your initial post, you mentioned that during the hard to
start sessions after being off for 10 to 15 minutes, that the de comp never popped during all the pulling until the saw started, may be it was sticking all along, and may be the reason too that the first dealer got low compression during testing.

If your hard starting comes back, don’t use the de comp and see how you get on,
you said the saw kicks after two pulls on choke and starts after two more, so you
won’t be pulling too long in any event.

That might definitely be part of the issue. I don't see too awful much of a need for decomps on anything smaller than 70cc and I don't particularly like the way they work( too many bad FT ones stuck in the top of pistons). I never use them myself. Might be something to pay attention to when your using the saw the next few times

 

[FergusonTO35]

Could be a matter of, the factory settings for these saws are so lean that any little thing could upset it. Different air density, wee bit of water in the fuel, alignment of Mars and Jupiter, who knows.

 

[Nutball]

Lean could be it in this cold weather. It took me 20 or so pulls to get my 490 to fire on full choke a few days ago, that caught me a little off guard. I have heard of fuel contamination at a gas station. A local non ethanol station had an issue where people's cars would quit due to water in the gas.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I run fuel stabilizer year round to avoid these sort of problems.