Easy Start saws

[JeffWischer]

So it goes like this: I'm 70 years old. Have probably run about a half dozen saws in the last 50 years. So, I know some things, and don't know even more. But anyway... I'm finishing up a TLC project on the Husq. 350 that I bought new in 2002. Great saw. Compression release helps to start it. Have two top-handle Poulan/Craftsman (Poulan 2000 equivalent I believe) that are a dream to start and run. I think you call it "drop start". But a few years ago I needed a saw in a hurry at my new location and grabbed a 14" Jonsred CS2238 at Menards. Does what it's supposed to. But. I'm not a big guy. 150# when I go to the doctor, 5'5" they say; used to be 5'6" 50 years ago. Go figure...

Any way that Jonsred is really hard to start. A real struggle to hold it down while pulling with great difficulty. Probably a piece of cake for most of you, but today I tried to use it, and gave up. And it's wanting to pull back on me- something discussed at length in another thread a few weeks ago. Keep in mind that the saw is essentially as new. Not a gallon of gas through it yet.

Many of the "top" brands (S,H,E for example) now advertise saws with easier starting "features". Some say spring-assist, some just say engine designed for XX% easier starting. I don't need a newer saw, but wanted the Jred to be sort of in between the Craftsmans and the H-350. Does anyone have experience with an"easy start" saw??? The Jred has a 14" bar like the Craftsmans but much more power. It might handle a 16" bar for just a little more "reach" ( The 350 has an 18 and it's just right for the bigger stuff). But I can't fight it this way. Do you suppose there's an aftermarket cylinder with a compression release?

Any and all comments and insights are welcome.

 

[Stump Shot]

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities to have your existing cylinder machined and tapped for a decompression valve to be installed.

 

[RCBS]

The singular experience I have with easy start is a Makita/Dolmar 6100. They are comically easy to start. I think one of my trimmers might have it but I just yank the little engine like normal to start.

 

[hacskaroly]

Any and all comments and insights are welcome.

I had many customers with shoulder issues that were able to take advantage of the easy start Stihls (181, 211 and 251). No jerking needed as it is spring assisted. A smooth pulling motion is all that is needed and it will kick over the spring and fire up the saw. Stop by a Stihl dealer and they should be able to demonstrate how to use one and let you give it a try just to feel the motion. I believe these saws all come with the tool-less bar adjuster (no scrench needed). These saws are generally $40 more than their regular versions due to the added starting mechanism.

 

[Outback]

Apparently that saw came easy start too. as the cs2238s. You could just swap starters for less effort than adding a decomp.

The part number is 545180813 for the easy starter.

Here's the oem easy starter for $31 shipped of the bay. It says its on sale for 10 more hours and then it goes up 4 bucks.

OEM Husqvarna Jonsered Redmax 545180813 Starter Recoil Complete Kit Genuine -B12 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for OEM Husqvarna Jonsered Redmax 545180813 Starter Recoil Complete Kit Genuine -B12 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[sawmikaze]

I don't know anyone including myself that likes or wants a stihl saw with easy start or a toolless chain tensioning system, I think they're junk and totally over engineered.

 

[two4spooky]

FWIW, A bit younger at 50+ but having more than a few physical issues. Anyways, easy-start feature just piss me off. Decompression for the bigger saws, yes appreciated on 90cc+ saws. Think Husqvarna 395xp or MS 661 or 660 decomp appreciated. Decomp button liked and used on big saws and such.

These spring assisted recoil starter systems showing up on small cc saws are just annoying, a pain in the ass. Skip them. Handle in the crotch, foot on the handle while saw on the ground or try to learn drop starting the saw. The *easy-start* is just a useless commercial feature for sales. No real use and just annoying if you have any experience with small engines or do repairs yourself. Just my opinion, FWIW

 

[brushwacker]

I don't know anyone including myself that likes or wants a stihl saw with easy start or a toolless chain tensioning system, I think they're junk and totally over engineered.

I know several people that used still easy starts for many years including myself and have been happy with them. A little patience and practice they do what they should. If you want to yank them over fast and far then it doesn't go well. Keep them well tuned and fresh fuel , they start with out killing your bad shoulder .
Tool less chain adjuster I find is handy on a saw you carry a lot but mainly use occasionally or a little here and there. It's a bit of a fight but you can leave the scrench at home.

 

[sawmikaze]

I know several people that used still easy starts for many years including myself and have been happy with them. A little patience and practice they do what they should. If you want to yank them over fast and far then it doesn't go well. Keep them well tuned and fresh fuel , they start with out killing your bad shoulder .
Tool less chain adjuster I find is handy on a saw you carry a lot but mainly use occasionally or a little here and there. It's a bit of a fight but you can leave the scrench at home.

Keeping any saw no matter what accessories it has with fresh fuel in them and tuned well is a good idea, I think the other makers do a better job than stihl does with their "easy start" systems.

 

[JeffWischer]

Wow. Thanks all. I'll mull this over. Some thoughts so far, in no particular order:
Remember that at the beginning, I stated that (I didn't memorize which ones were which) some specifically mentioned spring-assist, and others were more vague, or just said engine designed for easier starting. So I can imagine that the "engineering" of the spring-assist hardware could be either finicky in function or conceptually problematic, or both. Suggests a test drive of any new saw I would buy specifically for easier starting.

I'll respectfully disagree with the "you-only-need-decomp-on-really-big-saws". To be fair, you ended with the appropriate disclaimers. But I'll buy you all lunch at Wall Drug if that's not coming from someone with 50 pounds and 5 inches height advantage- or close to it. Just sayin'... The decomp works like a dream for me on the 350, as it did on a 455 Rancher that I used at work back in the 90's.

The starter option for my exact saw might just be the ticket. Apparently not big bucks- 10 cents on the dollar compared to another saw.

And the decomp conversion is maybe worth looking into. Any idea where/how I could get that done?

Thanks again.

 

[JeffWischer]

One more thing. Regarding the OEM spring assist, regardless of brand. What puts the spring "under tension" so that it "wants" to help turn the crank? With a conventional pull-start, you pull against engine compression and the cord rewind spring. Where is the additional spring? What "winds" it?

 

[heimannm]

If you look at the photo in the eBay listing, you can see that the center of the starter pulley is a separate piece.



The starter pulley has a conventional rewind spring to retract the starter rope, and there is a second coil spring inside the pulley attached to the portion that engages the pawls in the flywheel. As you pull on the starter rope, the compression of the engine holds the flywheel and that coil spring inside the pulley "winds up". Once the engine eases over TDC the spring is able to spin it fast enough to start the engine.

Some of the early versions on cheap saw were pretty flimsy, Craftsman/Poulan saws come to mind. In my limited experience, I would have to say the more modern, name brand saws all seem to function as they should and are generally reliable. You do have to learn the proper technique (slow, steady pull) as a quick jerk does not usually produce good results.

For folks with shoulder problems, or for older folks that can't combine the strength and coordination needed to start a high compression saw, the various easy start products are a reasonable accommodation.

In the 60's, both McCulloch and Remington offered electric start saws. The McCulloch models had on board batteries and a starter/generator built into the flywheel of the saw. The Remington models relied on and external battery and jumper cables or maybe it was a plug for a cigarette lighter? In many ways, particularly on the McCulloch, the added weight of the batteries and starter rather negated any benefits of an easier starting saw.



Now days, a battery operated saw seems to be a very good solution for many of those that need to cut some wood but for one reason or another can't get a conventional gasoline powered saw running.

Mark

 

[el33t]

If you look at the photo in the eBay listing, you can see that the center of the starter pulley is a separate piece.

View attachment 459440

The starter pulley has a conventional rewind spring to retract the starter rope, and there is a second coil spring inside the pulley attached to the portion that engages the pawls in the flywheel. As you pull on the starter rope, the compression of the engine holds the flywheel and that coil spring inside the pulley "winds up". Once the engine eases over TDC the spring is able to spin it fast enough to start the engine.

Some of the early versions on cheap saw were pretty flimsy, Craftsman/Poulan saws come to mind. In my limited experience, I would have to say the more modern, name brand saws all seem to function as they should and are generally reliable. You do have to learn the proper technique (slow, steady pull) as a quick jerk does not usually produce good results.

For folks with shoulder problems, or for older folks that can't combine the strength and coordination needed to start a high compression saw, the various easy start products are a reasonable accommodation.

Generally, easy starters contain two types of springs: coil springs or hairsprings (similar to recoil springs).
In my experience, the former are more reliable. Some manufacturers switched from hairsprings to coil springs.
Stihl uses, if I'm not mistaken, hairsprings.
What kills such starters is drop starting.


The last models of Dolmar/Makita (or rebranded) chainsaws were the easiest to start IMHO, because in addition to a purge priming pump and an extra spring in the starter, the ignition module from Prufrex included solutions such as ignition retarding when recognizing cranking etc.

CDIM – ignition module with digital easy-start system (DLS)

www.pruefrex.com

In the 60's, both McCulloch and Remington offered electric start saws. The McCulloch models had on board batteries and a starter/generator built into the flywheel of the saw. The Remington models relied on and external battery and jumper cables or maybe it was a plug for a cigarette lighter? In many ways, particularly on the McCulloch, the added weight of the batteries and starter rather negated any benefits of an easier starting saw.

View attachment 459441

 

[IffykidMn]

My older brother 73 now 5-6" maybe 5-7 and appx 200lbs round used to run Stihl 041s and later 044s when he was younger and was wanting a smaller saw for cleanup around his home, he bought what I believe was a Stihl 171 easy start and toolless bar which turned out to be nothing but a headache for him. He tossed the 171 in the trash and went with a Stihl 261 Pro(50cc) with decomp.

I am a good bit younger at 65 used to be 5-7" and 155 now 5-6" and 145 and still use saws on a regular basis, I run Stihl 088 with decomp as little as possible Husqvarna 592s with decomp and multiple 70cc saws both with and without decomp, 50cc saws with and without decomp, 25-35cc saws without decomp or easy start. Yes getting old is not for the weak, I spend as little time sitting in a chair as possible and feel better for it being outside in the fresh air. Happy sawing.

 

[GMB74]

In my experience, the style of starter posted by Outback works quite well. It reduces starting effort without feeling mushy and springy like the Stihl and Echo systems. The procedure for starting an easy start saw is different than a standard saw and some people just don't like it.
More discussion here:

How's your EZ-START ?

This refers to the system that uses a second "start" spring in addition to the normal cord rewind spring. When the cord is pulled, the engine gets harder to turn over as it approaches TDC and this causes the start spring to wind up, then when the piston goes past TDC the spring is released and...

www.arboristsite.com

 

[JeffWischer]

Great! I figured that there was a second spring somewhere. And your explanation makes logical sense: a little more pull effort on the way to TDC, which is "given back" after TDC. That "upgrade" to my Jred is probably worth the small investment. Will consider it more seriously.
Will also wait for a comment on adding decomp. In someways that seems more "elegant", but maybe that's overthinking it, which I am prone to do.
Also, I looked up Makita gas saws. Out of production but still available. And the Makita site explains what RCBS was referring to indirectly and el33t explained: yes, there's a spring assist AND ignition "enhancements" for a stronger spark at lower RPM. That combination of smart and easy starting might be just the ticket.

And thanks SO much to all of you!

 

[SCHallenger]

Great! I figured that there was a second spring somewhere. And your explanation makes logical sense: a little more pull effort on the way to TDC, which is "given back" after TDC. That "upgrade" to my Jred is probably worth the small investment. Will consider it more seriously.
Will also wait for a comment on adding decomp. In someways that seems more "elegant", but maybe that's overthinking it, which I am prone to do.
Also, I looked up Makita gas saws. Out of production but still available. And the Makita site explains what RCBS was referring to indirectly and el33t explained: yes, there's a spring assist AND ignition "enhancements" for a stronger spark at lower RPM. That combination of smart and easy starting might be just the ticket.

And thanks SO much to all of you!

You might be well served by looking up, "Chainsaw Kick Starter" by Tony Wilkinson on U-Tube. I am also up there in years, 87 to be exact, am 5ft 1in & 125 lbs (used to be 5ft 4in & 133 lbs) & have lots of arthritic problems including shoulder & back. I have 5 ported saws including a Stihl 462 which sometimes will bite even when using the decomp. I had one of the Kick Starters made, & it starts the 462 quite easily.

 

[Woodpecker]

You might be well served by looking up, "Chainsaw Kick Starter" by Tony Wilkinson on U-Tube. I am also up there in years, 87 to be exact, am 5ft 1in & 125 lbs (used to be 5ft 4in & 133 lbs) & have lots of arthritic problems including shoulder & back. I have 5 ported saws including a Stihl 462 which sometimes will bite even when using the decomp. I had one of the Kick Starters made, & it starts the 462 quite easily.

Here’s the video for the slow kids:

The device demonstration starts at the 4 minute mark… for the slow kids in a hurry. It turns any saw into an “easy start”

 

[IffykidMn]

Here’s the video for the slow kids:

The device demonstration starts at the 4 minute mark… for the slow kids in a hurry. It turns any saw into an “easy start”

I like it.
Might be a bit impractical dragging it around the woods but for home or woodyard use should work.