Another welder

[OnlyStihl]

Ya I'll be curious what your amp meter says once you take some readings between the 2 welders.


This is where the new inverter welders shine, I can run beautiful beads at 40amps on exhaust pipe with 7014 rod with no problems starting but other than teaching my boy how to do it I use the mig welder for all work like that. If I use going to be doing a lot of welding tho in the higher amperage can't beat the old transformers.

Amp clamp should be showing up today. I plan to make a 240V breakout cable so I can get the clamp over the individual wires. I got the parts, just need to do it.

First measurement is going to be on that old deep freezer. Measure its startup surge and its running usage.

 

[OnlyStihl]

Testing with the Amp Clamp and the breakout wire device I made up the other day. According to the factory PDF, the welder at idle with the Power Factor Capacitors will draw 23Amp. Reading 15Amps on each input wire for a sum of 30Amps. Right? Seems close enough...

Without the PF Capacitors each input should draw a combined 6.2 Amps or 3.1 Amps on each input wire.

I did test a bunch of other 120V machines:
Freezer = 3.1 Amps (device will not read surge)
Air Compressor = 7.84 Amps (dxcm251 suppose to draw 15Amps)
Bench Drill Press = 1.6 Amps (HF Baeur suppose to draw 2.3Amps)
Bench Light with Energy Efficient bulb = 0.137 Amp

I trust the Klein Tools AmpClamp to be reading correctly and accurately, so I am back to suspecting the breaker at the meter. I will install the breakers in the next few days and expect to read the same values.

 

[OnlyStihl]

Klien Tools splitter device -->

 

[el33t]

Testing with the Amp Clamp and the breakout wire device I made up the other day. According to the factory PDF, the welder at idle with the Power Factor Capacitors will draw 23Amp. Reading 15Amps on each input wire for a sum of 30Amps. Right? Seems close enough...

You only measure current on one wire. Both input wires are part of the same circuit, so the currents flowing through them should be the same. That is, if you measured 15 amps at idle, you do not need to double this value - the current is simply 15 amps.

 

[OnlyStihl]

You only measure current on one wire. Both input wires are part of the same circuit, so the currents flowing through them should be the same. That is, if you measured 15 amps at idle, you do not need to double this value - the current is simply 15 amps.

Okay. What do you think about the 15 vs the 23 that the factory says to expect? PF Capacitors not performing correctly? Based on my almost brand new drill press and air compressor, maybe the meter is off some, reading low?

15 is closer to 23, then it is without the PF Capacitors of 6.2. I'm thinking Good!

 

[el33t]

Okay. What do you think about the 15 vs the 23 that the factory says to expect? PF Capacitors not performing correctly? Based on my almost brand new drill press and air compressor, maybe the meter is off some, reading low?

15 is closer to 23, then it is without the PF Capacitors of 6.2. I'm thinking Good!

This may be due to aged capacitors, although not necessarily. Have you perhaps measured the input voltage?

I, if I were you, would disconnect those capacitors and then measure how much idle current is without them.

If your new fuse is 90 A, then the welder should work with the capacitors disconnected without any problems. I'm assuming you have the right gauge of wires there.

 

[OnlyStihl]

This may be due to aged capacitors, although not necessarily. Have you perhaps measured the input voltage?

I, if I were you, would disconnect those capacitors and then measure how much idle current is without them.

If your new fuse is 90 A, then the welder should work with the capacitors disconnected without any problems. I'm assuming you have the right gauge of wires there.

Disconnecting the Capacitors is a good idea. Will do. And the voltages are spot on at 120 each, 240 across both hots (180 phase shift good).

Yup, all wires are of sufficient gauge to handle the higher capacity breakers.

 

[thompsoncustom]

Measuring the welder under no load is only part of the picture. Set it to 100amps and weld with it and see what it reads.

 

[el33t]

Measuring the welder under no load is only part of the picture. Set it to 100amps and weld with it and see what it reads.

Of course, it would not hurt to measure this current as well. Albeit the problem is that it will vary wildly during welding. That's why on this Klein meter, you need to use the MAX button so it remembers the maximum value.

There are also special (not cheap) resistive loads for testing welding machines. You can also make yourself this type of primitive load using (thick) resistance wire.

 

[OnlyStihl]

As usual, anytime you get into a circuit or breaker box you find hillbilly work. As expected the heavy wire into the 60Amp breaker had pealed back wire strands to fit into the breaker. Trim and strip was in order. The breaker box is old and many of the hooks were a bit mangled. And the 240V/20Amp double throw double pole breaker for the water pump is two 120V20A single throw breakers. I'll address that in the coming weeks.

So far everything looks and works good. Got the 90Amp in the meter box connected and the 60Amp in the garage was easy enough. Next time I weld I'll test everything out and make sure all works as expected.

And also as usual, I cut myself in trimming back the wire insulation. All my wire strippers were for smaller gauge wire and the exacto knife found skin. Grrrrr...

 

[OnlyStihl]

Finally got my breaker situation all fixed. As I now understand the 60Amp breaker that tripped was 3 breakers away. 50Amp at the welder, and 60 amp at the garage box was fine which was in between the 50 and the 60 at the meter box.

I now have 60 at the welder, 90 at the garage (services the power buss and is a service disrupt) and lastly a new 90 at the meter box. I still have yet to install a new 240V/20A for the well pump. That last one is in reserve and will be installed next time I have to do some maintenance at the metered box. Seems like I have been slowly upgrading and replacing breakers quite a bit lately. All in all, I should be good to go for about anything I might attempt with my welders. Just need a welding job or two and all will be well worth it.

I did get a new job via email the other day. Will see if there is any follow thru from the woman that wants new hinges welded on her horse trailer to replace the broken ramp hinges. Lots and lots of people want welding work, but never follow thru. To far way, rusted beyond repair, want aluminum welded, want underneath muffler welding work, want me to supply metal (free), or think I am giving away for free my welders. People...?

 

[legdelimber]

The pile of galvanized conduit and wall studs was always fun to see people show up with, wanting you to rebuild a bent & torn off bumper with it.
Usually from the bumper mounted hitch ball and constantly pulling an overloaded trailer.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

The pile of galvanized conduit and wall studs was always fun to see people show up with, wanting you to rebuild a bent & torn off bumper with it.
Usually from the bumper mounted hitch ball and constantly pulling an overloaded trailer.

Stay away from galvanized metal unless wearing a good respirator with proper cartridges. The drinking milk is a myth and zinc is absolutely no good for you when breathing the fumes.

 

[Bill G]

Stay away from galvanized metal unless wearing a good respirator with proper cartridges. The drinking milk is a myth and zinc is absolutely no good for you when breathing the fumes.

I fully agree galvanized cutting and welding is not good on a man or woman's health. Ventilation is key and a "air pack" hood just pulls air from your hind end. I have seen *pretty boyes go fart in a welders air pack.


Damn kids

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I fully agree galvanized cutting and welding is not good on a man or woman's health. Ventilation is key and a "air pack" hood just pulls air from your hind end. I have seen *pretty boyes go fart in a welders air pack.


Damn kids

That’s why I put the good cartridges on and add the prefilters for fumes and mists so you can’t gas yourself or get it by somebody else

 

[Bill G]

I see dum arses is now "pretty boyes"