461 with a bit of modding

[Wonkydonkey]

well guys, I’ve finally got round to modding my ms461... just a little bit as I’m new to playing with a real oem cylinder. And also can’t wake the locals up with a saw with no baffles
Here’s two vids, 18”bar and a 25” bar in some beach wood. I'll post some more tomorrow (well later as it nearly 1am here)
Cheeers

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I'm pretty slack at recording things, but I’ve been into it twice now. So I do have some pic,s


The first time I took some timing numbers, and looked at the trans, what was going on here, when they made it. At first it thought a blind drunk person made it, cos of the slanty trans. Then I remembered that mastermind said it was to do with some backsuffin or something.

So as to masterminds methods, I got a ring and popped it into the cylinder and got it to the number I wanted. I cut me some card and started grinding. I don’t have the best tools so made do with the battery drill and a diamond wheel. I was sweating. Anyways job got done (a bit rough), I widened the intake as well as cleaning up the lower trans

The exhaust got a very slight raise, and I did lower the intake a little. They then got a 80/100 grit polish.

I did try a sans gasket. Well that didn’t work, due to the squish being a tad tight. Iirc, it was 16thou.


I pulled the carb to drill the main jet, I just could not justify the #70 micro drill (0.0295) as I had not really ported it to the max. So I opted for #73 (0.0250) originally it was 0.0200, well that’s what drill size fitted in.



The saw got put back together, with the oem gasket, and a little test , about a tank full. It seemed to rip,


But I was not happy that the squish had not been set, so I tore it apart one more time. I took a. Pic of the wash on the piston. (Which I had cleaned previously)


This time I cut a coke can up and that with some dirco the squish was set 0.0200


Ive given it a tune,a tacho and some cutting

The tach says 13.5k then blipped to 13.8k. (Not sure why it blipped)

So that’s the testing vids above.

Cheers

 

[Deets066]

I'm pretty slack at recording things, but I’ve been into it twice now. So I do have some pic,s


The first time I took some timing numbers, and looked at the trans, what was going on here, when they made it. At first it thought a blind drunk person made it, cos of the slanty trans. Then I remembered that mastermind said it was to do with some backsuffin or something.

So as to masterminds methods, I got a ring and popped it into the cylinder and got it to the number I wanted. I cut me some card and started grinding. I don’t have the best tools so made do with the battery drill and a diamond wheel. I was sweating. Anyways job got done (a bit rough), I widened the intake as well as cleaning up the lower trans

The exhaust got a very slight raise, and I did lower the intake a little. They then got a 80/100 grit polish.

I did try a sans gasket. Well that didn’t work, due to the squish being a tad tight. Iirc, it was 16thou.


I pulled the carb to drill the main jet, I just could not justify the #70 micro drill (0.0295) as I had not really ported it to the max. So I opted for #73 (0.0250) originally it was 0.0200, well that’s what drill size fitted in.



The saw got put back together, with the oem gasket, and a little test , about a tank full. It seemed to rip,


But I was not happy that the squish had not been set, so I tore it apart one more time. I took a. Pic of the wash on the piston. (Which I had cleaned previously)


This time I cut a coke can up and that with some dirco the squish was set 0.0200


Ive given it a tune,a tacho and some cutting

The tach says 13.5k then blipped to 13.8k. (Not sure why it blipped)

So that’s the testing vids above.

Cheers

Have you swapped the coil out yet?

 

[MustangMike]

461 coils are limited. 460 coils work, but they have one less screw holding them in place.

Also, did you pull the limiters on the carb?

Any muffler mods?

Any timing advance?

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Yeh I forgot to say I’ve done that, it’s a 460 coil but not the one recommended by other guys on here.
I brought the coil off an eBay seller who listed with one part number and then sent another.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Thanks for your replies, deetsy & mustangmike .
Yes I advanced the timing about 18 thou

I pulled the carb limiting caps, the carb is set to L 1 & H 1,1/4,

I did play with screws open a bit more, but it did not rev to 13k. That’s why I settled for 1,1/4. And got 13.5 / 13.8
But remember I’ve drilled the carbs main jet, just not as big as mastermind does.

The exhaust, well I’ve left the baffle in there, I opened up the hole a bit and bent the little slit in so it’s a bit like the 660 muff. Although I’ve got a China duel port on order.

I'll add some pics

Cheers

 

[Wonkydonkey]

The pic of the piston, was after adjusting the trans, with about a tank full of the red Stihl 2stroke

 

[Wonkydonkey]

A few more pics

 

[Wonkydonkey]

The tool at the top is what I used to do the transfers,it was not easy in a battery drill.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Ahh I forgot those all important timing numbers
Stock was
Squishy 0.0350
ex - int - trans. 106-71-123/126 the trans were slanted, which I,m guessing is the back stuffing thing.

After , squishy 0.0200 102/3 - 74/5 - 120/1

Thanks to masterminds detailed thread on the 461, I did grind the tops off those saddle screws. I almost overlooked them.

 

[MustangMike]

Sounds like you have done a good job!

 

[XP_Slinger]

Nice work, sounds good! I’d try knocking your rakers down a bit so it can eat without dogging it in. That’s some hard wood

 

[huskyboy]

Nice work, sounds good! I’d try knocking your rakers down a bit so it can eat without dogging it in. That’s some hard wood

I agree the chain looks like it could use some work. Chain is everything.

 

[Gary Courtney]

Nice work, sounds good! I’d try knocking your rakers down a bit so it can eat without dogging it in. That’s some hard wood

You ain't lying! It wasn't doing anything until he dogged it!

 

[XP_Slinger]

I agree the chain looks like it could use some work. Chain is everything.

That’s a fact! I’m experimenting with a chain as we speak. Kinda fun to tweak them and see if it sucks or does better.

I bet the OPs saw flys through that wood with a little bit better chain on it.

 

[huskyboy]

There is definitely a fine line between too aggressive and not aggressive enough.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I d k... the 25” was new ish and straight off the grinder, the 18 “ was more than 1/2 worn an rakers are lower. The later chain seems to bite and does not slow in the cut but the former seems to slow to 9/10k while leaning on the bar
I know one has more teeth in the wood, but the bigger bar chucked out bigger chips.

I think I will have to find some soft wood to compare to that beech

But saying al this, I calculated the blowdown, and found other stuff about BD
what is a, or should I say, what’s best blowdown of x size bar full comp chain with that size saw..I know there’s more to it. But maybe I’m in the wrong ball park

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I found this on a Asian fb page, it could be tosh, but three maybe troof in it ?
It’s a 2stroke bike thing.....


MPH with the best MPG.

Blowdown of 18 to 22: Low RPM powerband timing.Good for low & mid rang torque power, up to 8K-9.5K RPM rang.

Blowdown of 20 to 24: Very usable timing. Works best with weaker hitting pipes. Good mid rang torque & power up to 9K-10.5K RPM range.

Blowdown of 23 to 26: very good all around Wide power band timing. Will work with most pipes. Strong upper mid rang torque with hi RPM power up to a 9.5K-11K RPM range.

Blowdown of 25 to 27: A good pipe is a must. Best all around power band timing. Riper upper mid rang torque with hi RPM power Wide power band with a big power hit. Best power for everyday use up to 10K-11.5 RPM

Blowdown of 26 to 28: Low power under 5K, Good mid range. works best with pipes that peak hard in the 8K to 11.5K range fading/topping out at 12K This the max for most street set ups.

Blowdown of 28 to 30: Works best with a tuned variomatic or shifter engine, Very low power under 6K. Weak mid rang under 7.5K. The power band starts to get narrower and more peaky. needs a HIGH RPM pipe. gives the best power in the 9k to 12+K rang, will pull past 13K with some set ups.

Blowdown of 30: At this point 99.% of you will just have a door stop. Very narrow power band. No power at RPM's under 8K, higher power at high high revs. You will fry most one speed well tuned clutch's to be able to ride with a blowdown as high as this, You need a well tuned variomatic or shifter engine that can spin over 14K.

Blowdown of 32+: Way too high for any 1 speed or 2 speed automatic. This is only ride able at the race track on the very very best tuned variomatic shifter engine.


What does peeps say, does it hold water?

Cheers

 

[XP_Slinger]

I found this on a Asian fb page, it could be tosh, but three maybe troof in it ?
It’s a 2stroke bike thing.....


MPH with the best MPG.

Blowdown of 18 to 22: Low RPM powerband timing.Good for low & mid rang torque power, up to 8K-9.5K RPM rang.

Blowdown of 20 to 24: Very usable timing. Works best with weaker hitting pipes. Good mid rang torque & power up to 9K-10.5K RPM range.

Blowdown of 23 to 26: very good all around Wide power band timing. Will work with most pipes. Strong upper mid rang torque with hi RPM power up to a 9.5K-11K RPM range.

Blowdown of 25 to 27: A good pipe is a must. Best all around power band timing. Riper upper mid rang torque with hi RPM power Wide power band with a big power hit. Best power for everyday use up to 10K-11.5 RPM

Blowdown of 26 to 28: Low power under 5K, Good mid range. works best with pipes that peak hard in the 8K to 11.5K range fading/topping out at 12K This the max for most street set ups.

Blowdown of 28 to 30: Works best with a tuned variomatic or shifter engine, Very low power under 6K. Weak mid rang under 7.5K. The power band starts to get narrower and more peaky. needs a HIGH RPM pipe. gives the best power in the 9k to 12+K rang, will pull past 13K with some set ups.

Blowdown of 30: At this point 99.% of you will just have a door stop. Very narrow power band. No power at RPM's under 8K, higher power at high high revs. You will fry most one speed well tuned clutch's to be able to ride with a blowdown as high as this, You need a well tuned variomatic or shifter engine that can spin over 14K.

Blowdown of 32+: Way too high for any 1 speed or 2 speed automatic. This is only ride able at the race track on the very very best tuned variomatic shifter engine.


What does peeps say, does it hold water?

Cheers

In my limited experience bike motors and chainsaws are way different. Bikes have insane port duration compared to saws because of pipes and reeds. So in my opinion it doesn’t really translate to saws. Raising peak power up in rpm has a lot to do with exhaust port height, but as you know it’s all working together.

I hope I didn’t come off as a jerk when I commented on your chain. Didn’t mean to take anything away from your saw. That wood must be harder than woodpecker lips!

 

[Wonkydonkey]

What I,m reading is a BD of23-26 or 25–27 is best... but that tuned pipes not tin cans like we got

I,m new to this bd numbers, I know there’s more to it than meets the eyes but ....I know when you have it it’s very hard to reproduce, hence different size saws and numbers etc...

Cheers