25" Belly Bar vs 20" Tsumura - 10 pin

[Redbull661]

tree monkey 661, max flow, 32:1 honda, 91oct/eth free.

10pin, new factory chains.

log 1: maple

log2 oak

interesting the RS full comp slowed down in the oak.

anyone got a .063 20" roller nose bar they would send to me to put up against the 25 belly? Might have to keep this belly bar...and cut the heel off it!

 

[Definitive Dave]

Still trying to put together my Cannon order but I plan to get several 20" and 16" belly bars and competition bars.
I will check my stash to see what I have on hand that might fit the bill.
DD

 

[spencerpaving]

Still trying to put together my Cannon order but I plan to get several 20" and 16" belly bars and competition bars.
I will check my stash to see what I have on hand that might fit the bill.
DD

Dave....I'm gonna need a couple of those bars.....redbull...damn that saw runs good pulling a 10

 

[Frank bierce]

Is this what you're looking for?...

 

[CoreyB]

Looking good. that saw does Cook. sounds good to .

 

[MustangMike]

Not surprised the belly bar is more efficient, it should be. But comparing RS to RSLH??? Would like to see RSL, and maybe an 8 or 9 pin rim.

In 19" Red Oak, my 044 was about 2 seconds faster with RSL than RSLH with 7 pin on a 28" Stihl ES light bar.

Unless you are having trouble clearing the chips, it does not make sense to me to make the chain run faster (large pin) to pull fewer cutters (skip chain). The faster the chain must go, the more friction it will generate, the more power will be lost.

I could be wrong, but I would like to see the test. I also found that skip was a little grabby when cutting the angles for a notch. Full comp just seemed smoother to me, but an 044 won't pull like a 661. Perhaps it also had something to do with the rakers.

 

[jmssaws]

Saw have a regular carb on it?
Sounds like it's tuned faster in the oak video.

 

[Redbull661]

Not surprised the belly bar is more efficient, it should be. But comparing RS to RSLH??? Would like to see RSL, and maybe an 8 or 9 pin rim.

In 19" Red Oak, my 044 was about 2 seconds faster with RSL than RSLH with 7 pin on a 28" Stihl ES light bar.

Unless you are having trouble clearing the chips, it does not make sense to me to make the chain run faster (large pin) to pull fewer cutters (skip chain). The faster the chain must go, the more friction it will generate, the more power will be lost.

I could be wrong, but I would like to see the test. I also found that skip was a little grabby when cutting the angles for a notch. Full comp just seemed smoother to me, but an 044 won't pull like a 661. Perhaps it also had something to do with the rakers.

-tested 8,9,and 10pin on full comp - 10pin was fastest.
-yeah I am scratching my head why the RS was faster in the maple by a hair, but slower in the oak by a good deal. vs the RSLH.
-Know where I can get some RSL .063 3/8ths? I would like to try RSL vs RSLH vs RS. ...if I can't find any I might get desperate and make RSL out of an RSLH.

Saw have a regular carb on it?
Sounds like it's tuned faster in the oak video.

- mtronic. only played with a regular carb on it once back in april. I want to try it again when it gets warmer.

 

[jmssaws]

-tested 8,9,and 10pin on full comp - 10pin was fastest.
-yeah I am scratching my head why the RS was faster in the maple by a hair, but slower in the oak by a good deal. vs the RSLH.
-Know where I can get some RSL .063 3/8ths? I would like to try RSL vs RSLH vs RS. ...if I can't find any I might get desperate and make RSL out of an RSLH.



- mtronic. only played with a regular carb on it once back in april. I want to try it again when it gets warmer.

Ive tried one several times and the mtronic is always stronger just by a little.

 

[Definitive Dave]

Unless you are having trouble clearing the chips, it does not make sense to me to make the chain run faster (large pin) to pull fewer cutters (skip chain). The faster the chain must go, the more friction it will generate, the more power will be lost.

Ok I hope I don't come off as an argumentative dickbag but I see this the other way around.
Fewer cutters on the wood is less friction and the higher chain speed on a saw that can handle it takes more "bites" faster, than it would if slowed down by taking more "bites" simultaneously.
The number of drive links is the same either way so the friction change is on the cutter vs. wood side of it.
I could be completely wrong.
That's why testing on video is so important/fun/enlightening/confusing.
Something that doesn't make sense can happen and then you try to figure out why, and how that same knowledge can help you be faster for whatever type of cutting you do.

 

[jmssaws]

I make a living by increasing chain speed and nothing else.

A saw can only cut faster if you turn the chain faster or a more aggressive chain the same speed.

 

[jmssaws]

If the saw is strong enough you can take the same bar and chain and keep putting bigger sprockets on it and it will be a little faster every time.

It takes a stout saw to run a 10pin and that's no joke

 

[MustangMike]

I don't think I have any unused RSL loops, but Mark (cobby08) has a big roll of it in .063, so I'd contact him. The stuff I got from him was very sharp right off the roll.

Even the same tooth filed at different angles will work differently in different wood. Usually softwood is a sharper angle, and hard wood a blunter angle. The tough Oak grain likely reflected that round file cutters are not as efficient in that wood.

 

[MustangMike]

Fewer cutters on the wood is less friction

My thought was if using full comp with a smaller pin, you will get the same # of cutters pulling through the wood with less chain speed.

Anyway, I agree the testing is fascinating and the only real way to know. Sometimes what you think will happen does not.

I also think saws under 90 cc should stick with 7 pin unless cutting softwood or cookies, but that is just my opinionated thoughts!

 

[sawfun]

My thought was if using full comp with a smaller pin, you will get the same # of cutters pulling through the wood with less chain speed.

Anyway, I agree the testing is fascinating and the only real way to know. Sometimes what you think will happen does not.

I also think saws under 90 cc should stick with 7 pin unless cutting softwood or cookies, but that is just my opinionated thoughts!

I've found the under 90cc 7 pin to be correct as well Mike.

 

[RI Chevy]

This testing by Redbull is awesome. Real life testing. It is intriguing.
Interesting to see how small little changes affect the cuts, both positive and negative.
Thanks Julian

 

[CR888]

I respect any 'modified off the shelf' saw that can run a ten pin successfully. That Treemonkey know's how to put torque into a saw. Clever feller.