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For the experts, what do the different angles do?

trooney

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I was just contemplating about the different angles that you can file a chainsaw chain. The oregon file guides say 30 degrees, the Pferd all in one guide says 35 degrees. Now I file and grind all my chains 30 degrees, but does 35 degrees make a more agrressive or passive chain? How come square ground chain cuts the fastest? Thanks.
 

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Logic dictates that a larger angle makes for a sharper pointed tooth tip, thus more aggressive but also more prone to dulling.
As such a shallower angle makes for a more durable cutter tip that is less aggressive.
This should relate especially to chisel tooth cutters.

It is possible that my logic is impaired as I'm fighting a viral infection and have a two days long headache!
Also, I am no expert.
 

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I say stick with 30 degrees for any chain used primarily for bucking and then occasional noodle cutting. I've been asked to make a ripping chain for long cuts against the grain. Then I drop the cutting angle to 10 degrees and usually use semi-chisel cutters. Example:
 

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Well I am not even close to knowing what I am doing, let alone expert, lol....

I have never tried 35 angle....I stick with the 25 and 30 top plates....

Hey I remember talking to you while back, did you end up getting some CBN wheels....if so how do you like them...

I just got a Stihl usg here a few weeks ago and I like it a lot....now this is crazy, but a company on eBay that sells CBN wheels is sending me (for free!!!), some adapters so I can run my CBN wheels on my usg, pretty sweet, can't wait to get the adapters.....and the CBN wheels I got from diamond wheels inc are still looking/working like brand new, they are great!!!!
 

jb-chainsaws

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Well I am not even close to knowing what I am doing, let alone expert, lol....

I have never tried 35 angle....I stick with the 25 and 30 top plates....

Hey I remember talking to you while back, did you end up getting some CBN wheels....if so how do you like them...

I just got a Stihl usg here a few weeks ago and I like it a lot....now this is crazy, but a company on eBay that sells CBN wheels is sending me (for free!!!), some adapters so I can run my CBN wheels on my usg, pretty sweet, can't wait to get the adapters.....and the CBN wheels I got from diamond wheels inc are still looking/working like brand new, they are great!!!!

I don't suppose you could let me know the company? It'd be handy to get a couple of adapters!

With regard to USG angles I've done a few at 40-20-20, so 20 degree top plate and it's a strong cutter that seems to take more of a beating, can't say I notice it being any slower either
 

RD35

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I do 25° on chisel cutters because my customers brag about how their chains stay sharp longer. I use 30° on semi-chisel because it makes this type of cutter a bit more aggressive and they are not as prone to getting dull quick anyway. These settings seem to work well for me so I use them. The angle is more about "stay-sharp" than it is about how it cuts. If the cutter teeth are truly sharp and if the depth gauges are set properly then the chain will cut regardless of the top plate angle (within reason). I have cut with a chain that had been hand filed with top plate angles varying from 15° to 45° and it cut really well....at first. I will say, like others have said, that the greater the angle the more aggressive the cutters will be....just won't stay sharp a long.
.
 

Khntr85

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https://oregonproducts.com/pdfs/FilingAngles.pdf

Trying 25 on some LGX now, probably will wind up running semi chisel for everything firewood wise unless I see a major increase in durability.
Oregon calls for 25 on a lot of their chain, Stihl is 30....

I have ran full chisel in ash, walnut and it holds up ok....

When I am in the real hard and dry wood I run Stihl RM semi-chisel...it holds an edge and it cuts great when filed/ground correctly....

What kind of grinder are you using....Oregon calls for the 10 tilt on their chisel chain and 25 top plate...
 

Khntr85

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I don't suppose you could let me know the company? It'd be handy to get a couple of adapters!

With regard to USG angles I've done a few at 40-20-20, so 20 degree top plate and it's a strong cutter that seems to take more of a beating, can't say I notice it being any slower either
Let me get their website and info for ya...
 

Khntr85

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I do 25° on chisel cutters because my customers brag about how their chains stay sharp longer. I use 30° on semi-chisel because it makes this type of cutter a bit more aggressive and they are not as prone to getting dull quick anyway. These settings seem to work well for me so I use them. The angle is more about "stay-sharp" than it is about how it cuts. If the cutter teeth are truly sharp and if the depth gauges are set properly then the chain will cut regardless of the top plate angle (within reason). I have cut with a chain that had been hand filed with top plate angles varying from 15° to 45° and it cut really well....at first. I will say, like others have said, that the greater the angle the more aggressive the cutters will be....just won't stay sharp a long.
.
Hey I see you are in Bloomington, I am in Muncie/Yorktown area.....

What kind of grinder are you using???
 

JMoney

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Oregon calls for 25 on a lot of their chain, Stihl is 30....

I have ran full chisel in ash, walnut and it holds up ok....

When I am in the real hard and dry wood I run Stihl RM semi-chisel...it holds an edge and it cuts great when filed/ground correctly....

What kind of grinder are you using....Oregon calls for the 10 tilt on their chisel chain and 25 top plate...

I just got the granberg file-n-joint for my birthday. Before that I've been using the husqvarna roller guides which I'll keep using for touch ups. I did set the 10 degree tilt on the granberg.
 

Khntr85

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I just got the granberg file-n-joint for my birthday. Before that I've been using the husqvarna roller guides which I'll keep using for touch ups. I did set the 10 degree tilt on the granberg.
Cool, I had a good guy give me one, I used it a lot and still have it....you can make a stellar chain with it....once you get used to it it's simple to set up and use....

The best thing about the granberg, IMO, is it will build your muscle memory without even thinking about it...one day, in the future you will be in a hurry and you will just grab the file and be free handing without even thinking about it!!!

One tip, don't fight the tool and use fluid movements, if you have to push hard on a file, it's time to get a new one.....
 

Wolverine

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I was just contemplating about the different angles that you can file a chainsaw chain. The oregon file guides say 30 degrees, the Pferd all in one guide says 35 degrees. Now I file and grind all my chains 30 degrees, but does 35 degrees make a more agrressive or passive chain? How come square ground chain cuts the fastest? Thanks.


can%2Bof%2Bworms.PNG


Hey Tom, how goes it? :cool:
 

JMoney

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Cool, I had a good guy give me one, I used it a lot and still have it....you can make a stellar chain with it....once you get used to it it's simple to set up and use....

The best thing about the granberg, IMO, is it will build your muscle memory without even thinking about it...one day, in the future you will be in a hurry and you will just grab the file and be free handing without even thinking about it!!!

One tip, don't fight the tool and use fluid movements, if you have to push hard on a file, it's time to get a new one.....

One of the main things motivating me to get the granberg was the ability to set how much material is removed. I ended up taking too much off of the first tooth though and had to remove a lot of material. Do you have any tips for setting that adjustment without taking off too much? Do you grind to the desired point first and then set the back stop, or do you back it off a little bit at a time until you get to what you want?

It seems like the top rail likes to bind a bit unless I lift up a little on the handle. I tried applying some tri-flow but that seemed to make it worse, so I wiped all of it off.

Really excited to cut with the newly filed chain though. One of my favorite things with the granberg are the little brass rails that hold the tooth perfectly steady.
 

Philbert

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Screen shot 2017-07-06 at 7.40.50 PM.png
Part 1

So, there are really 3 key angles when sharpening:

'A' is the 'Top Plate Filing Angle' (typically 25 to 35 degrees). This shapes the 'angle of attack' of the top plate, ***but also the cutting bevel angle of the side plate *** This is part of Joe Cox's design, to shape both with one file pass!

'B' is the 'Down Angle' (typically 0 or 10 degrees). This makes a compound bevel in the top plate cutting edge. Called 'down angle' as you lower the file handle down to do this when filing from the inside-out.

'C' is the 'Top Plate Cutting Edge Angle' (typically 55 to 60 degrees), which is achieved by the height of the correct diameter file (or angle of the grinding wheel). We can get into all types of weird geometry here (cord angle of the file diameter), and confusing measurements, since there are few 90 degree angles on a cutter; the guide bars are crowned, not flat; it is a different angle if measured at the inside or outside edge (60 degree inside angle may measure 80 degrees at outside edge); etc.

This illustration is from the Oregon reference, mentioned above, although, I normally hear them mentioned in the order:'A', 'C', 'B', as in 30°/60°/0°. Don't forget to add in the depth gauge offset (typically 0.025 inches).

Part 2

As noted, some sets of angles will cut faster, but dull faster (racing chains versus fire wood chains). Some angles will cut better in different species of wood (soft wood versus hard wood). Even the power of the saw is a factor: a higher powered saw may be able to pull an aggressively filed chain in a way that a more modest powered saw can not.

Part 3

I have had a few factory reps tell me that the 'recommended angles' are intended for a general audience. in other words, STIHL, Oregon, etc., sell millions of chains, to millions of users, in dozens of countries, using hundreds of different saws, cutting thousands of different species of trees. While it is possible to optimize a chain to fit specific cutting situations, the manufacturers pick the 'best all around' settings for 'general use'.

So, if you are able to sharpen your chains accurately and consistently, you should think of the recomended angle settings as 'starting points'. For many users, that is good enough. If you live on an oak plantation, and only cut red oak, it makes sense to try and optimize your chains for red oak. Same thing if you live on a Christmas tree farm. If you never know what you are going to cut (firewood scrounging, storm clean up, etc.), pick some general angles that work for you.

Experiment. Maybe try different angles with different brands of chains, or different saws. Some guys are stuck in a 'one-chain-on-one-saw' mindset, filing on the bar, and using a chain up before removing it. I like to think of my saws like a socket set:

power heads = ratchets (1/4", 3/8", 1/2" drive)
guide bars = extensions
chains = sockets (deep, 6 point, metric, etc.)

Choose what you need for the task at hand. You can have a bunch of different chains sharpened for different wood or cutting conditions (full chisel, semi-chisel, chipper, low kickback, etc.), such as soft wood, hard wood, frozen wood, dirty conditions, . . . .

If you prefer a golf analogy, approach each tree like a hole on the course, and select the appropriate powerhead, guide bar, and chain for the shot!

Part 4

In summary, don't sweat a few degrees that most guys probably can't measure very accurately anyways. Focus on getting each edge on each cutter sharp, and getting each cutter on a loop the same. If you deviate from the manufacturers' recommended angles, do it intentionally, and not due to lack of control. File guides and grinders help in this regard.

Philbert
 
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Khntr85

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One of the main things motivating me to get the granberg was the ability to set how much material is removed. I ended up taking too much off of the first tooth though and had to remove a lot of material. Do you have any tips for setting that adjustment without taking off too much? Do you grind to the desired point first and then set the back stop, or do you back it off a little bit at a time until you get to what you want?

It seems like the top rail likes to bind a bit unless I lift up a little on the handle. I tried applying some tri-flow but that seemed to make it worse, so I wiped all of it off.

Really excited to cut with the newly filed chain though. One of my favorite things with the granberg are the little brass rails that hold the tooth perfectly steady.
Have you located the depth stop knob, you can set it so you can only file back to a certain point in each cutter....

I would use a paper towel and wd40 or pb blaster to and clean/lubricate the tails fairly frequently....i would say those friction points would wear if not kept somewhat lubricated....
 

Khntr85

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Can you see the round knob behind the square metal piece....that's the depth stop, you can turn it in or out, depending on your needs...IMG_2789.PNG
 
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