Dogging in vs self feeding - Tooth length too! The truth of it.

[rogue60]

I started running hard nose bars after having a few stringy barks jamming up a couple of sprockets. I can't tell the difference on the big saws and it doesn't seem to hurt the small saws either.

Dcs460 with a 16 hard nose.

Yeah I've locked up a few sprocket nose bars over the years in Stringy Bark is a pita
I'm the same I can't tell the difference between the two types of bars once you get used to running hard nose bars is nothing wrong with them good hard working bars.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Pine is a softwood…but it’s not always a soft wood.

View attachment 410885

In the Dixie land when the loblolly pine dies or is injured sap rushes to the stump and solidifies into an amber like hardness. Also know as "Fat lighter " because it burns like a wad of cotton dipped in fat grease. It's literally like hitting a glass bottle in the tree! Your just shattering it ,not cutting the fibers.
We sell small sticks of it in most of our vistor stores in Parks, to start fires in you fire ring with. I believe its the high sugar content of the sap that makes it so flammable?

 

[davidwyby]

In the Dixie land when the loblolly pine dies or is injured sap rushes to the stump and solidifies into an amber like hardness. Also know as "Fat lighter " because it burns like a wad of cotton dipped in fat grease. It's literally like hitting a glass bottle in the tree! Your just shattering it ,not cutting the fibers.
We sell small sticks of it in most of our vistor stores in Parks, to start fires in you fire ring with. I believe its the high sugar content of the sap that makes it so flammable?

Yup

 

[bogieboy]

That's slow as and the hard nose bar has nothing to do with it. The chain is lacking big time and as others have said is way over tight for a hard nose bar.

Here's couple vids .404 RS hard nose bars in Aussie hardwoods.
Makes me laugh when I read hard nose bars are for stumping or dirty timber on the internet's by guys that have never used em before lol
Tallowwood

Narrow leaf red ironbark

Might have been slow due to chain, might be slow because its only the 2nd tank on a new top end...LOL chain was round filed full chisel stihl. I have a new loop now, and a 36" sproket nose that i am gonna be trying one of these days, gotta get back out to the wood pile...LOL

 

[chipper1]

165 psi too.

Wait, there's PSI's down under too .

To be honest most of us stupid kiwi's call any aussie tree bluegum well around here anyway.

If they have access to water they are soft as and grow stupid fast like 35 inch tree in 25 years fast. Then again what species? No idea but a gum tree of some description.

Some are red inside. The dead ones wouldn't have a clue half the time as they are by themselves and no leaves

This here was stupid hard and ripped off cutters at like a 3rd left. Not done yet but yeah not newView attachment 410877
Was years ago now. It had been dead standing for 20 years atleast


Also cut a bit of jarrah from time to time just from posts poles and off the warf. The jarrah was nothing to whatever that random old tree was.

But no we really don't have sod all experience in my region of stupid hard aussie wood but do get the odd 1

Son, just sit here and watch the cutters fly lol.
Is that black locust directly behind him, it's one of the most common woods I cut.
I guess it's 1700 on the press a bearing into a seasoned piece scale . Great wood for the woodburner.

Yeah I've locked up a few sprocket nose bars over the years in Stringy Bark is a pita
I'm the same I can't tell the difference between the two types of bars once you get used to running hard nose bars is nothing wrong with them good hard working bars.

Do you bore cut at all with them?
What's the main reason for suing them, just because they are more durable?
I've cut frozen white oak that rolled the working corners over on a brand new Stihl RS, I just waited to cut it. Nice when that's an option.
While black locust can be pretty hard, when it's green it's not bad.

 

[rogue60]

Wait, there's PSI's down under too .

Son, just sit here and watch the cutters fly lol.
Is that black locust directly behind him, it's one of the most common woods I cut.
I guess it's 1700 on the press a bearing into a seasoned piece scale . Great wood for the woodburner.

Do you bore cut at all with them?
What's the main reason for suing them, just because they are more durable?
I've cut frozen white oak that rolled the working corners over on a brand new Stihl RS, I just waited to cut it. Nice when that's an option.
While black locust can be pretty hard, when it's green it's not bad.

Yes bore cut fine ya use em the same as you would a sprocket nose bar.
Yeah durability/reliability is why you run a hardnose bar you have removed a failure point (the sprocket). Also takes quite a bit more effort to bend a solid hard nose bar lol
Speed wise I don't notice a difference personally.

Thinking about it guy's talking about chains getting hammered and knocked around it's probably because they are running 3/8 chain yeah 3/8 isn't very durable if the going is tough. If I've got a mountain of work ahead of me in hard timber I've always run .404... 3/8 is weak sauce and not very durable compared to .404

All the really hard work has been done decades ago.. All our old growth hardwood forests have been logged what the axe and misery whip didn’t get saws running hard nose bars got.. All the old timer cutters run hard nose bars down here.


One example of a sprocket nose bar failing for me. I had to go bush to a bump clean up buck logs and load a log truck was only one load of logs won't take long so silly me only took one saw was like 40min or hr drive one way.. bar tip failed not long after getting there lol

This is that sprocket nose bar I still have a pic wasn't even a very old bar.
Sprocket bearing rivets failed why I don't know? chain wouldn't rotate without jamming down beside the sprocket.





Here's some ring barked few decades dead standing tough old dry Ironbark and Box is hard but clean wood .404 RS shines in this stuff no destroyed or broken off cutters.. But ya still have to give the chain a rub after every tank of fuel. I personally wouldn't run 3/8 RS in timber like this would be most the day sharpening and be a nightmare if it was dirty lol


At the end of the day it's all about using the best suited tools for the job at hand is no such thing as one shoe fits all. Ya got to be able to adapt and learn all the options available ya can tackle a wide range of scenarios with an open mind.
Anyone who's says my way is the only way is a charlatan or too thick to realise it a big world out there.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Wait, there's PSI's down under too .

Son, just sit here and watch the cutters fly lol.
Is that black locust directly behind him, it's one of the most common woods I cut.
I guess it's 1700 on the press a bearing into a seasoned piece scale . Great wood for the woodburner.

Do you bore cut at all with them?
What's the main reason for suing them, just because they are more durable?
I've cut frozen white oak that rolled the working corners over on a brand new Stihl RS, I just waited to cut it. Nice when that's an option.
While black locust can be pretty hard, when it's green it's not bad.

We hoard old big logs of black locust in the park service! We build stairs in the mountain parks with it because it takes decades to rot in the ground.
Big logs are difficult to find here, I've cut some that has been over 70yrs old.

 

[chipper1]

We hoard old big logs of black locust in the park service! We build stairs in the mountain parks with it because it takes decades to rot in the ground.
Big logs are difficult to find here, I've cut some that has been over 70yrs old.

That's awesome. Any pics.
Cut a few good sized ones today, probably 35yrs old if I had to guess.
The ole ms200 rear handle with a 14" didn't quite reach, had to cut over top or from the other side.

 

[chipper1]

Yes bore cut fine ya use em the same as you would a sprocket nose bar.
Yeah durability/reliability is why you run a hardnose bar you have removed a failure point (the sprocket). Also takes quite a bit more effort to bend a solid hard nose bar lol
Speed wise I don't notice a difference personally.

Thinking about it guy's talking about chains getting hammered and knocked around it's probably because they are running 3/8 chain yeah 3/8 isn't very durable if the going is tough. If I've got a mountain of work ahead of me in hard timber I've always run .404... 3/8 is weak sauce and not very durable compared to .404

All the really hard work has been done decades ago.. All our old growth hardwood forests have been logged what the axe and misery whip didn’t get saws running hard nose bars got.. All the old timer cutters run hard nose bars down here.


One example of a sprocket nose bar failing for me. I had to go bush to a bump clean up buck logs and load a log truck was only one load of logs won't take long so silly me only took one saw was like 40min or hr drive one way.. bar tip failed not long after getting there lol

This is that sprocket nose bar I still have a pic wasn't even a very old bar.
Sprocket bearing rivets failed why I don't know? chain wouldn't rotate without jamming down beside the sprocket.
View attachment 411011View attachment 411012




Here's some ring barked few decades dead standing tough old dry Ironbark and Box is hard but clean wood .404 RS shines in this stuff no destroyed or broken off cutters.. But ya still have to give the chain a rub after every tank of fuel. I personally wouldn't run 3/8 RS in timber like this would be most the day sharpening and be a nightmare if it was dirty lol
View attachment 411013

At the end of the day it's all about using the best suited tools for the job at hand is no such thing as one shoe fits all. Ya got to be able to adapt and learn all the options available ya can tackle a wide range of scenarios with an open mind.
Anyone who's says my way is the only way is a charlatan or too thick to realise it a big world out there.


View attachment 411021

Yep, lots of learning to be had out here.
I've spent a lot more money and time focusing on chain sharpening, but there are guys that could learn me a thing or two, sure wish I could get out in the woods with them.
I've blown the tips out of a few bars, but that was because the rakers were set a bit low for making bore cuts, I use them quite often.
That's some knarly looking wood for sure, can't imagine cutting it when it's dirty.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

That's awesome. Any pics.
Cut a few good sized ones today, probably 35yrs old if I had to guess.
The ole ms200 rear handle with a 14" didn't quite reach, had to cut over top or from the other side.
View attachment 411190View attachment 411191View attachment 411192

Next time I'm in the mountains.

 

[rogue60]

Yep, lots of learning to be had out here.
I've spent a lot more money and time focusing on chain sharpening, but there are guys that could learn me a thing or two, sure wish I could get out in the woods with them.
I've blown the tips out of a few bars, but that was because the rakers were set a bit low for making bore cuts, I use them quite often.
That's some knarly looking wood for sure, can't imagine cutting it when it's dirty.

The more I learn the less I know it's true lol

One thing I keep up with and interests me is what you guys are up to with chain. I like the threads with you guy's experimenting and trying new things with chains.
Nothing better than after spending many hrs moding a chain and trying it out and it's like wow that's impressive puts a smile on ya face.
The guy's stuck with the same one sharpening procedure and angles their whole life don't know what they are missing out on lol

 

[chipper1]

The more I learn the less I know it's true lol

One thing I keep up with and interests me is what you guys are up to with chain. I like the threads with you guy's experimenting and trying new things with chains.
Nothing better than after spending many hrs moding a chain and trying it out and it's like wow that's impressive puts a smile on ya face.
The guy's stuck with the same one sharpening procedure and angles their whole life don't know what they are missing out on lol

Right. I've got three square grinders, a raker grinder, 2 or 3 round grinders, hundreds of files, bunch of different progressive raker guides, lots of types of chains of various brands, and I've forgotten more of what I've learned than one can image, but I can still hand file a decent round or square chain...

 

[Jethro 2t sniffer]

The more I learn the less I know it's true lol

One thing I keep up with and interests me is what you guys are up to with chain. I like the threads with you guy's experimenting and trying new things with chains.
Nothing better than after spending many hrs moding a chain and trying it out and it's like wow that's impressive puts a smile on ya face.
The guy's stuck with the same one sharpening procedure and angles their whole life don't know what they are missing out on lol

The thing that makes the most difference seams to be the thing that gets the least attention.

The wee little do dads infront of the cutters.

Why is it that average Jeffrey Leroy can cut half his life and never heard of playing with them. They can make or break a day cutting and yet are still a dark art with Joe homeowner. Angles can be all over the show to a point and can cut fairly well if them little whatsit's are OK ish.

The other extreme is watching a guy lower his with a cordless grinder lol

A long bar in good wood they gotta be pretty close to where ya like em

Doing some tree removals at the workshop for the boss some of my work mates were shocked at a rowdy 272 with a mean chain. They think that is a big saw too

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Took the 660 and the 260 out today, I literally ran 2 tanks through the 660 and 2 in the 260 and came home. The wood was covered in termites, sand and small stones. I couldn’t do a full cut with the 660 before I had to resharpen - I’m just not doing that LOL. Kinda sucks, but it is what it is! The smaller wood I used the 260 on was better and clean. It seems to be the larger 30” plus logs that have a rotten hollow inside, full of termite crap that kills the chain.

As a point of reference, this wood has been so bad I have sharpened 2/3 of the chain away an I’m only 10 tanks in on it…

 

[davidwyby]

Sound like time to think about washing the logs, maybe avoid cutting the rotten center, and .404 stihl semi chisel if you’re not already running it.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Sound like time to think about washing the logs, maybe avoid cutting the rotten center, and .404 stihl semi chisel if you’re not already running it.

Haha you can’t do that where I am, there isn’t a hose. You don’t get the choice where I go, he’s a saw mill, it’s dusty, sandy and rough logs, you either go and cut up what’s there or don’t go lol

 

[Wilhelm]

I'd say sand covered logs, use a carbide tipped chain.

But, carbide tips do not like stones.

Just utilize a cheap loop or two and keep grinding!

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

The wood was covered in termites, sand and small stones. I couldn’t do a full cut with the 660 before I had to resharpen - I’m just not doing that LOL. Kinda sucks, but it is what it is! The smaller wood I used the 260 on was better and clean. It seems to be the larger 30” plus logs that have a rotten hollow inside, full of termite crap that kills the chain.

Not claiming to be an expert, when filing 3/8" "termite tree chain" I lift the round file up another 10-20% above the top of the cutter (so from around 20% to around 35%, depending) so the cutter face is less hooked and much flatter, and may also reduce the angle from 30° to 25°. It will take 2/3 to twice as long to complete a cut on the first two cuts, though since it doesn't dull quickly in termite trees it will be as fast as standard semi-chisel on the third cut (or thereabouts) and then outpace the semi-chisel. Instead of 5 standard cuts (30" tree, 18" bar, 5 sections cut) I can get 25+ cuts out of the "termite tree chain" and the chain isn't damaged, just dull when it dulls out.

Granted, since then the good folks here suggested I use a hard-nose bar and loose .404 chipper chain with full open oiler setting, and that's "the bomb" for lots of rotty stuff.

 

[Squareground3691]

Not claiming to be an expert, when filing 3/8" "termite tree chain" I lift the round file up another 10-20% above the top of the cutter (so from around 20% to around 35%, depending) so the cutter face is less hooked and much flatter, and may also reduce the angle from 30° to 25°. It will take 2/3 to twice as long to complete a cut on the first two cuts, though since it doesn't dull quickly in termite trees it will be as fast as standard semi-chisel on the third cut (or thereabouts) and then outpace the semi-chisel. Instead of 5 standard cuts (30" tree, 18" bar, 5 sections cut) I can get 25+ cuts out of the "termite tree chain" and the chain isn't damaged, just dull when it dulls out.

Granted, since then the good folks here suggested I use a hard-nose bar and loose .404 chipper chain with full open oiler setting, and that's "the bomb" for lots of rotty stuff.

The Punisher, .404 Lol

 

[Maintenance Chief]

404 chipper " ol' scoopy scoopy"!