What oil is best? and what ratio?

[bwalker]

Had no idea people run saws that rich would be a blubbering mess basically unusable lol

You would be suprised..

 

[lilspenny]

Thanks I’ll check it out!!

You even tried that red armor by chance…I’ve ran all the stihl offerings and it’s better than both of their oils in my opinion….

Yes I have tried RA but was not happy with it. It left a golden varnish on my piston. Several oils tested prior with no varnish. But ... Different 0E gas. Will re-try RA but not till last of the 11 I own. I don't want to try it now because if it does make a mess again it will make it harder to judge other oils. There have been several good oils, one awful oil. But this varnish was in my br800 which is very different from a chainsaw. It was a surprise gift. In reality, for me... it works well, has good enough force, and isn't bulky or heavy. Not the best for heavy leaves. My br800 is picky about oil. All work, some better than others. I have further testing to do. All subjective, all my opinion, all in an effort to find 3 oils that work better, imo, than Stihl Ultra. It didn't take long. Three, however, are truly outstanding. I will reveal my opinions when I complete temp and rpm measurements. No doubt, there are endless oils. My wife still loves me even though she understands not. Oh ... Smell plays into my opinions. So... Ultra and 7000 flunked. 7000 is goshawful bad, imo. Smells like vomick with ammonia poured on top. Imo.

 

[lilspenny]

So, I came across this old paper from Yamaha and just wondered if there has been any chatter recently about polybutene similar to this ..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://global.yamaha-motor.com/design_technology/technical_review/pdf/browse/35tr0008.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKsYHrjaqSAxV0jYkEHXX9J54QFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0qvzME0RDZNUfGE6z1YgWV

 

[bwalker]

Yes I have tried RA but was not happy with it. It left a golden varnish on my piston. Several oils tested prior with no varnish. But ... Different 0E gas. Will re-try RA but not till last of the 11 I own. I don't want to try it now because if it does make a mess again it will make it harder to judge other oils. There have been several good oils, one awful oil. But this varnish was in my br800 which is very different from a chainsaw. It was a surprise gift. In reality, for me... it works well, has good enough force, and isn't bulky or heavy. Not the best for heavy leaves. My br800 is picky about oil. All work, some better than others. I have further testing to do. All subjective, all my opinion, all in an effort to find 3 oils that work better, imo, than Stihl Ultra. It didn't take long. Three, however, are truly outstanding. I will reveal my opinions when I complete temp and rpm measurements. No doubt, there are endless oils. My wife still loves me even though she understands not. Oh ... Smell plays into my opinions. So... Ultra and 7000 flunked. 7000 is goshawful bad, imo. Smells like vomick with ammonia poured on top. Imo.

Not in a chainsaw and not in a two cycle. What works in your 4 cycle blower is irrelevant to a chainsaw. The design of the 4mix is garbage and Stihl used a special oil ( Ultra) to band aide the issue.

 

[bwalker]

So, I came across this old paper from Yamaha and just wondered if there has been any chatter recently about polybutene similar to this ..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://global.yamaha-motor.com/design_technology/technical_review/pdf/browse/35tr0008.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKsYHrjaqSAxV0jYkEHXX9J54QFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0qvzME0RDZNUfGE6z1YgWV

That paper was written 33 years ago. Since then almost all FD oils are PIB blends. I think they figured out how much and what weight PIB's to use a long time ago.
Also of note is that Yamalube 2R is a PIB blend and has been for 40 years or so. It also has a track record of results that very other oils can match. Honda even ran the stuff back in the day.

 

[lilspenny]

Not in a chainsaw and not in a two cycle. What works in your 4 cycle blower is irrelevant to a chainsaw. The design of the 4mix is garbage and Stihl used a special oil ( Ultra) to band aide the issue.

BW I say 4-mix is unnecessarily complicated. I have had all brands and all styles. I like it ok in string trimmers due to the low rpm torque. It allows for easier low speed trimming for people who can modulate the speed. It's not for you. The complicated design is on the edge of total destruction daily, yet some last for decades. Truth is, Stihl Ultra is a good oil for that machine, but I dislike Stihl Ultra's carbon and smell. I have a 21 year old fs100rx which has never had a repair... only routine maintenance. 10 years hard commercial. Echo's pb-5810t has their "next generation" engine which is pretty much identical to the 4-mix... Like it or not. Red Armor is their oil of choice. It's happening, and I don't like it either. So, don't know if you have seen Echo's newest catalog.. ??? Battery powered backpack on the front. No thanks... Given the choice I'd take the "next generation" Echo 4 stroke. I'm the owner of a week old br800 which is a warranty replacement unit due to a dropped pushrod that destroyed too much to fix, so I totally agree with your assessment, but those units will become more prevalent as time goes on. Thank the EPA. Hopefully we will not be forced to give up 2 strokes in our lifetime. Thank God for the non-progressive people who resist the movement.

 

[bwalker]

BW I say 4-mix is unnecessarily complicated. I have had all brands and all styles. I like it ok in string trimmers due to the low rpm torque. It allows for easier low speed trimming for people who can modulate the speed. It's not for you. The complicated design is on the edge of total destruction daily, yet some last for decades. Truth is, Stihl Ultra is a good oil for that machine, but I dislike Stihl Ultra's carbon and smell. I have a 21 year old fs100rx which has never had a repair... only routine maintenance. 10 years hard commercial. Echo's pb-5810t has their "next generation" engine which is pretty much identical to the 4-mix... Like it or not. Red Armor is their oil of choice. It's happening, and I don't like it either. So, don't know if you have seen Echo's newest catalog.. ??? Battery powered backpack on the front. No thanks... Given the choice I'd take the "next generation" Echo 4 stroke. I'm the owner of a week old br800 which is a warranty replacement unit due to a dropped pushrod that destroyed too much to fix, so I totally agree with your assessment, but those units will become more prevalent as time goes on. Thank the EPA. Hopefully we will not be forced to give up 2 strokes in our lifetime. Thank God for the non-progressive people who resist the movement.

The 4 mix isnt overly complicated. Its just a poor design that takes a 4 stroke engines and lubes it via a total loss system like a two-strok. It just makes no sense as it increases emmissions, and decreases reliability.
For a controlable trimmer try usinga. Redmax with the high torque head.

That Echo is an old Shindaiwa design BTW. Redmax makes a Strato two stroke that is top notch and emmissions compliant for the forceable future.
Battery makes alot of sense for many people as they are incapable of taking care of gas equipment.
All Ashless oils have that stinky smell because they use amine based dispersents. Amines stink.

 

[MtnHaul]

The 4 mix isnt overly complicated. Its just a poor design that takes a 4 stroke engines and lubes it via a total loss system like a two-strok. It just makes no sense as it increases emmissions, and decreases reliability.
For a controlable trimmer try usinga. Redmax with the high torque head.

That Echo is an old Shindaiwa design BTW. Redmax makes a Strato two stroke that is top notch and emmissions compliant for the forceable future.
Battery makes alot of sense for many people as they are incapable of taking care of gas equipment.
All Ashless oils have that stinky smell because they use amine based dispersents. Amines stink.

One bonus with battery trimmers is no carbon buildup in the exhaust if you have a lot finesse work where full throttle is overkill. I used to use a Husqvarna 326-L trimmer but I much prefer the battery stuff for small trimming tasks.

 

[lilspenny]

The 4 mix isnt overly complicated. Its just a poor design that takes a 4 stroke engines and lubes it via a total loss system like a two-strok. It just makes no sense as it increases emmissions, and decreases reliability.
For a controlable trimmer try usinga. Redmax with the high torque head.

That Echo is an old Shindaiwa design BTW. Redmax makes a Strato two stroke that is top notch and emmissions compliant for the forceable future.
Battery makes alot of sense for many people as they are incapable of taking care of gas equipment.
All Ashless oils have that stinky smell because they use amine based dispersents. Amines stink.

I don't think 4-mix is overly complicated. I think it is unnecessarily complicated, meaning a simple 2 stroke design is all that is necessary. When I lost the pushrod a couple of weeks ago it was at wot. Valves were adjusted correctly and apparently the spring just couldn't keep pace. That's a rare problem, and lucky for me it was covered. The cam follower was snapped in half. My first thought was a stuck valve but they were free. Stihl asked the mechanic very few questions. They knew. That's a problem. An ohc would make more sense for a 7250 rpm engine. Perhaps weight is an issue. Regardless.. a 2 stroke is all that is needed. But tree huggers run that company.

 

[bwalker]

I don't think 4-mix is overly complicated. I think it is unnecessarily complicated, meaning a simple 2 stroke design is all that is necessary. When I lost the pushrod a couple of weeks ago it was at wot. Valves were adjusted correctly and apparently the spring just couldn't keep pace. That's a rare problem, and lucky for me it was covered. The cam follower was snapped in half. My first thought was a stuck valve but they were free. Stihl asked the mechanic very few questions. They knew. That's a problem. An ohc would make more sense for a 7250 rpm engine. Perhaps weight is an issue. Regardless.. a 2 stroke is all that is needed. But tree huggers run that company.

At the time the 4mix was first being talked about Stihl had no 2 stroke emmissions compliant technology. Hence the 4 stroke with total loss lubrication design. Alot of people dont know this but Stihl got much of its technology, including Mtronic and Strato charging as part of an EU court case.

 

[Outback]

Do tell.

 

[EFSM]

The 4 mix isnt overly complicated. Its just a poor design that takes a 4 stroke engines and lubes it via a total loss system like a two-strok. It just makes no sense as it increases emmissions, and decreases reliability.
For a controlable trimmer try usinga. Redmax with the high torque head.

That Echo is an old Shindaiwa design BTW. Redmax makes a Strato two stroke that is top notch and emmissions compliant for the forceable future.
Battery makes alot of sense for many people as they are incapable of taking care of gas equipment.
All Ashless oils have that stinky smell because they use amine based dispersents. Amines stink.

Redmax first patented the strato scavenging technology in the early or mid 2000s IIRC. That seems to be why Husqvarna acquired the company.