What oil is best? and what ratio?

[drumbum]

My 4-mix chainsaw rocks!!! Vroom vroom!!

Can a 4-mix saw be piss revved ?

 

[bwalker]

bwalker... when I was small child I remember the oil that we had for our Mercury outboard motors (my dad was a dealer) and it was Quicksilver Formula 2 which came in a large can ... about 30oz.. That stuff smelled good and now this ashless stuff really does stink. Even the Schaeffer's 7000 boat oil flat out stinks with this sickening ammonia like odor. I don't know when all this came to be. Do you? I know the Formula 50 did not smell great but at least it wasn't horrible. Is it the detergents or is it this trimethylolpropane that smells so bad when burned?
Edit starts here... and thanks for the warning about the smell because that actually matters to me. I'm one of these guys that puts forth an effort to sniff my exhaust every single time I burn mixed gas. I even have one of those mosquito candle buckets and I add Saber to it. I admit it.

It happened some time in the early 80's IIRC.
Ashless oils do not have detergents. They use dispersents, which are amines. The amines sre what causes the smell.
TMP is a building block chemical used to make things like ester base oils and isnt a stand alone ingredient. Which MSDS are you seeing this on?

 

[bwalker]

Hey don't say that... Echo has a new pb-5810t blower that is using a type of 4-mix engine that "supposedly" has some sort of stratocharged design. That's what someone posted on BITOG. But, whether stratocharged or not it is a 4-mix type of engine. What's interesting to me is that Red Armor is the recommended oil and it is NOT ashless. So, don't be surprised if the 4 strokes become more popular. Time to stock up on 2 cycle oil and bury it with the kimchi.

If its 4 cycle its not strato.

 

[lilspenny]

It happened some time in the early 80's IIRC.
Ashless oils do not have detergents. They use dispersents, which are amines. The amines sre what causes the smell.
TMP is a building block chemical used to make things like ester base oils and isnt a stand alone ingredient. Which MSDS are you seeing this on?

10-4 gotcha... I was seeing, for example, Stihl Ultra, Maxima Super M, and others but it must be like you say.

 

[lilspenny]

10-4 gotcha... I was seeing, for example, Stihl Ultra, Maxima Super M, and others but it must be like you say.

Edit starts here.... plus there was one of the Amsoil marine oils. Cujet had found that information on the Echo engine....

 

[bwalker]

10-4 gotcha... I was seeing, for example, Stihl Ultra, Maxima Super M, and others but it must be like you say.

I just looked and its the ester base oil. The exact compound is tri methyl propane tricaprylate

 

[bwalker]

Edit starts here.... plus there was one of the Amsoil marine oils. Cujet had found that information on the Echo engine....

I dont believe thats accurate, but you never know.

 

[EFSM]

I dont believe thats accurate, but you never know.

http://www.hybrid4engine.com/animation.asp
I think it might be this type of engine, but I’ve never been into one.

 

[bwalker]

http://www.hybrid4engine.com/animation.asp
I think it might be this type of engine, but I’ve never been into one.

I am thinking the same thing. Its not strato at all. Its basically identical to a four mix.

 

[lilspenny]

http://www.hybrid4engine.com/animation.asp
I think it might be this type of engine, but I’ve never been into one.

Looking at the parts diagram of that engine it looks so much like the Stihl 4-mix it's almost as if Stihl and Echo are sharing sorta like Kia/Hyundai or Echo/Shindaiwa. I don't see any evidence of a stratified charge design. What I would like to know is why Echo is doing this now. With so many Echo professional customers hating on Stihl 4-mix and now Echo puts such a machine on the market it makes me wonder if it is due to epa demands or is it simply a cheaper quick fix to fill a residential market niche. I have seen this particular blower and honestly the overall finished product .... imo.... does not look as slick/polished/refined as the high end commercial backpack blowers from the major brands including Echo. It just seems odd, not to mention the "stop sale"/recall due fo a fuel line safety concern. I'm of the opinion that blowers, trimmers, chainsaws, etc... need less epa mandates and I will never ever buy battery ope... it's just not my preference. I wear my seat belt, have battery powered drills, am conservative when it comes to pesticides, herbicides, etc... but I enjoy spunky internal combustion engines and as the owner of more than one Stihl 4-mix machine I prefer 2 strokes without catalytic converters and carburetor adjustment screws that are customer friendly. So I actually wonder why Echo is reviving this funky design and it concerns me that ope is on the chopping block and it also concerns me that some landscaping professionals not only don't give a rip but they wholeheartedly join in with what I consider ridiculous government oversight. Oh well, I guess it's time to buy pork, guns, and 2 strokes because before long they'll all be outlawed. lol, just kidding, sorta.

 

[FernGreen]

Anyone using Honda hp2 @32:1?

 

[lilspenny]

Anyone using Honda hp2 @32:1?

I have it 40:1 in my old chainsaw and it runs great, cleans great, and even has spooge to boot.

 

[bwalker]

Looking at the parts diagram of that engine it looks so much like the Stihl 4-mix it's almost as if Stihl and Echo are sharing sorta like Kia/Hyundai or Echo/Shindaiwa. I don't see any evidence of a stratified charge design. What I would like to know is why Echo is doing this now. With so many Echo professional customers hating on Stihl 4-mix and now Echo puts such a machine on the market it makes me wonder if it is due to epa demands or is it simply a cheaper quick fix to fill a residential market niche. I have seen this particular blower and honestly the overall finished product .... imo.... does not look as slick/polished/refined as the high end commercial backpack blowers from the major brands including Echo. It just seems odd, not to mention the "stop sale"/recall due fo a fuel line safety concern. I'm of the opinion that blowers, trimmers, chainsaws, etc... need less epa mandates and I will never ever buy battery ope... it's just not my preference. I wear my seat belt, have battery powered drills, am conservative when it comes to pesticides, herbicides, etc... but I enjoy spunky internal combustion engines and as the owner of more than one Stihl 4-mix machine I prefer 2 strokes without catalytic converters and carburetor adjustment screws that are customer friendly. So I actually wonder why Echo is reviving this funky design and it concerns me that ope is on the chopping block and it also concerns me that some landscaping professionals not only don't give a rip but they wholeheartedly join in with what I consider ridiculous government oversight. Oh well, I guess it's time to buy pork, guns, and 2 strokes because before long they'll all be outlawed. lol, just kidding, sorta.

The EPA isnt going away unfortunately.
Catylitic Converters aren't all that bad. I have a Redmax Kombi with one and it works fine. Very clean running engine with virtually no smell and zero smoke.

 

[lilspenny]

The EPA isnt going away unfortunately.
Catylitic Converters aren't all that bad. I have a Redmax Kombi with one and it works fine. Very clean running engine with virtually no smell and zero smoke.

Do you think it increases heat? I've never run one.

 

[bwalker]

Do you think it increases heat? I've never run one.

I've never measured to know, butnit doesn't appear to run on hotter to me.
Tuning properly and strato charging really helps with Cats. If you are too rich the cat has to burn the excess and it can run hot.p

 

[lilspenny]

I've never measured to know, butnit doesn't appear to run on hotter to me.
Tuning properly and strato charging really helps with Cats. If you are too rich the cat has to burn the excess and it can run hot.p

10-4

 

[lilspenny]

So, as some of you know, with differing opinons I'm sure, I, along with another fellow are performing 2 stroke oil reviews and I plan to release what I have found as soon as tests are completed. I had problems with certain oils in my br800 4-mix... not Stihl Ultra since it has never been in that blower, so I started branching out and that's when I got an invitation from a fellow to send each other oil samples so we wouldn't have to each buy every oil. So far all is going well. My preference would be a long term test on each oil but I just cannot do that, so I'm running each oil long enough... usually a couple of tankfuls, to see what's what, and several tankfuls with certain oils to clear doubts. So far I've run 7 oils with one unopened in the que. I burned up my wife's thermometer today so 2 are on order. I was a bit shocked that one highly loved oil actually ran lower rpm than most, and I suppose it's viscous friction. How well do they run? What does the piston look like? wet? dry? What about the sparkplug? too black? too white? Heat? What about tiny bits of engine surge? Performance during warm-up? So far, no one oil has performed the best in all categories. I wish... and today I thought I had found that oil but the piston top seemed so dry that it made me unsure. But every oil is different, and every oil will work. Some would be better under a load, imo, but that' impossible to judge in my testing. As a former pro, one oil - one ratio - one tank of mixed gas on the truck - all types of machines.... I have my favorite. As homeowner I can use whatever runs the cleanest and never worry about burning up
my machines .. hmmmm... maybe not. This will take a few weeks to finalize. A couple of oils need another chance to make sure. This is what I can do as a retired person. Piddle. No opinion of mine will be partial. I highly value the opinion of my fellow tester whom I have never met. I have the luxury of going back to back and back again and again with my blower hanging in the garage. Any ideas? oils you'd like for me to test? Oh... I'm using 93 pump non-ethanol and it seems to be of good quality.

 

[Tomos770]

 

[bwalker]

So, as some of you know, with differing opinons I'm sure, I, along with another fellow are performing 2 stroke oil reviews and I plan to release what I have found as soon as tests are completed. I had problems with certain oils in my br800 4-mix... not Stihl Ultra since it has never been in that blower, so I started branching out and that's when I got an invitation from a fellow to send each other oil samples so we wouldn't have to each buy every oil. So far all is going well. My preference would be a long term test on each oil but I just cannot do that, so I'm running each oil long enough... usually a couple of tankfuls, to see what's what, and several tankfuls with certain oils to clear doubts. So far I've run 7 oils with one unopened in the que. I burned up my wife's thermometer today so 2 are on order. I was a bit shocked that one highly loved oil actually ran lower rpm than most, and I suppose it's viscous friction. How well do they run? What does the piston look like? wet? dry? What about the sparkplug? too black? too white? Heat? What about tiny bits of engine surge? Performance during warm-up? So far, no one oil has performed the best in all categories. I wish... and today I thought I had found that oil but the piston top seemed so dry that it made me unsure. But every oil is different, and every oil will work. Some would be better under a load, imo, but that' impossible to judge in my testing. As a former pro, one oil - one ratio - one tank of mixed gas on the truck - all types of machines.... I have my favorite. As homeowner I can use whatever runs the cleanest and never worry about burning up
my machines .. hmmmm... maybe not. This will take a few weeks to finalize. A couple of oils need another chance to make sure. This is what I can do as a retired person. Piddle. No opinion of mine will be partial. I highly value the opinion of my fellow tester whom I have never met. I have the luxury of going back to back and back again and again with my blower hanging in the garage. Any ideas? oils you'd like for me to test? Oh... I'm using 93 pump non-ethanol and it seems to be of good quality.

Different oils combustion differently and require different tuning.

 

[MtnHaul]

Different oils combustion differently and require different tuning.

Wouldn't the baseline fuel also affect the results? It's not like we all have access to the same fuel.

Edit: Or is it reasonable to assume that there is enough parity in average pump gas that the results would have broad application?