What oil is best? and what ratio?

[Redbull661]

oil info... make up, viscosity, flash point



Stihl Ultra - http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf
Base Oil: Trimethylolpropane ComplexEster 80-90%
additive mixture - 0-20%

Flash point 432F
Visc @ 100c = 8.5
------------------

Husky - http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/huse/huse2010_euenapen/huse2010_euenapen_cms-s002_.pdf
Highly refined Mineral Oil - greater than 40%
distillate (petroleum) - 15-25%
polyolefin phenol - greater than 5%

Flash Point - 167F
Visc @ 100c = ~8.4
----------------------------------

Dumonde DTP - http://dumondetech.com/new-dumonde/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/dtp_MSDS.pdf

Flash point - 221F
Visc @ 100c - we'd all like to know! It's been impossible to get a hold of the company.

--------------------------------------------

Yamalube - https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/docs/MSDS_Yamaha_Yamalube 2R.pdf

additive mixture = 16-20%
Pour Depressant mixture = <.5%
Solvent = 10-15%
Base Oil = 54-75%
Blue Dye = <.5%

Flash Point = 255F
Visc @ 100c = 8.5
------------------------------

Klotz R50 - https://www.klotzlube.com/Ecommerce/site/content/PDFs/MSDS/MSDS-2014-KL-102.pdf

"Not applicable" ???????

Flash Point = 550F
Visc @ 100c = 19.1
------------------------------

Klotz Super Techniplate

https://www.klotzlube.com/ecommerce/product/kl-100/super-techniplate-synthetic

Flash Point = 460F
Visc @ 100c = 22.4

-----------------------------------
Honda Hp2 - http://prohondaoils.com/engine-oils/2-stroke-engines/

I don't have a direct link to msds. But did attach pdf file to this post.

Flash point - 221F
Visc @ 100c - 17.8

-----------------------------------
Motul 710 2T - http://www.motovan.com/img/marketing/pdf/Motul/MSDS eng/710 2T.pdf
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/38/710 2T (GB).pdf?1324312083

Naphtha petroleum hydrotreated - less than 30%

nothing else shown

Flash Point - 190 F
Visc @ 100c = 8.9
------------------------------------


Motul 800 2t OFF road - https://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/77816/original/800_2T_Factory_Line_Off_Road_TDS_(GB).pdf?1388420014

msds - http://www.quickfds.com/out/17287-57965-18051-016468.pdf

Polyamine Succinimide - 2.5 - 10%
2,6-DI-TERT-BUTYLPHENOL 0-2.5%
Alkarylsulfonate - 0-2.5%

Flash point = 485F
Visc @ 100c = 15.5


----------------------------------------

Mobil 1 - 2t racing (from what people have told me this is the same as mx2t)

I don't have a direct link to the msds but have attached a pdf of it. I think they stopped making this stuff in the USA in about 2009. But it's still sold in Europe?

Flash Point - 212 F says 158 on the msds I have but the most common number I've seen has always been 212. So in short it's hard to tell since it's very hard oil to find at this point...don't know what your getting.
Visc @ 100c - 12.7

---------------------------------------
Belray H1R - http://www.belray.com/sites/default...ter 2t engine oil item 99280 us_english_0.pdf

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-h1-r-racing-100-synthetic-ester-2t-engine-oil


"This product considered not hazardous..."

note - contacted belray for approx make up
base oil: Proprietary Ester blend = ~90%
additive mixture = ~10%

Flash Point = 395F
Visc @ 100c = 12.4
-----------------------------------------

Belray Si-7 - http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-si-7-synthetic-2t-engine-oil

Flash point -
Visc @ 100c - 7.8

----------------------------------------------

Amsoil - http://www.amsoil.com/msds/atp.pdf
Synthetic Ester = 30-60%
Butnene homopolymer - 30-60%
Solvent naphtha = 10-30%
n,n di sec butylphenylenediamine .1%

Flash Point = 216F
Visc @ 100c = 11.1
-----------------------------

Lucus - http://lucasoil.com/pdf/SDS_2-Cycle-Snowmobile-Oil.pdf

Solvent naphtha petroleum = 10-30%
1 decene, homopolymer hydyrogenated = 10-30%

doesn't show anything else.

Flash Point = 175F
Visc @ 100c = 7.5
--------------------------------

Maxima K2 - http://www.maximausa.com/msds/2stroke/Formula K2.pdf
http://www.maximausa.com/product/formula-k2/

Synthetic Ester Base Stock = 65-75%
Solvent Naphtha = 5-10%
Polybutene = 5-15%
Multi functional additive mixture = 5-15%

Flash Point = 240F
Visc @ 100c= 13.6
---------------------------------

Maxima 927 - http://www.maximausa.com/msds/2stroke/Castor 927.pdf
http://www.maximausa.com/product/castor-927/

modified fatty acid ester = <50% "fatty acid ester"? LOL
castor Oil = 50-70%
additive mixture = 10-20%

Flash Point = 420F
Visc @ 100c = 13.8
-------------------------------------

Woodland Pro synthetic- http://www.baileysonline.com/msds_sheets/PDFs/wp_synthetic.pdf
performance additive = 5-12%
high flash solvent = 22-27%
base oil - synthetic = 45-57%
Blue Dye = ~ .5%
Low smoke additive = 30-40%
fuel stabilizer - less than 2%

Flash Point = 210F
Visc @ 100c = 7.2
--------------------------------------

Shindaiwa red armor - http://www.shindaiwa-usa.com/getattachment/9ee40453-a8f5-4647-988b-b20ebe5afe03

Polybutene = 15-40%
Proprietary Ester = 10-30%
Distillates (petroleum) = 10-30%
Highly refined petroleum lubricant oils = 10-30%
Hydrocarbyl amine = 7-13%
alkyl imidazoline = 1-5%
Alkarylamine = less than 2%
Solvent naphta = less than 2%

Flash Point = 163F
Visc @ 100c = 10.3
-----------------------------------------

Schaffer's 7000 - (what tree monkey uses... 32:1)

http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme-7000-synthetic-2-cycle.html

Flash point = 187F
Visc @ 100c = ~7.7
----------------------------------------

 

[bwalker]

The higher the octane the slower and cooler it burns. 87 vs 93.
The 87 has a much hotter bang and burns faster. Thus it's more violent. This is why with an engine that has a lot of ignition timing and higher compression you can get detonation and also overheat a piston or cylinder. IMO an engine with normal ignition and compression was well as a shorter stroke will actually work better with 87.

The 93 has a cooler bang and burns slower. Not as violent. So an engine with a lot of ignition timing and compression needs the higher octane. To help prevent the detonation. IMO an engine with advanced ignition, higher compression and a longer stroke definitely benefit.
Every engine is different. They all prefer something different. It's all in how the engine is built, what its built for and how long you want it to last and preform.
I think this is why some guys say that 87 works better in there saws and some guy say 93.
To much octane can slow a saw down and not enough octane can cause damage. It's all about figuring out what works best for you.

The mix oil also effects things with the different flash points etc. I don't know enough about oils yet to really have much input here but the way I see it is like this. Lower octane needs higher flash point and higher octane can have a lower flash point.

This is just my $.02. I may be way off but this is how I see things when talking about fuel. Carry on

I don't even know where to start.. but suffice to say your incorrect on about everything you mentioned.

 

[bwalker]

This is only the third 5 gallon bucket that I've used of the MS98L; I've been a photog for racing and that's what alot of those guys been using because of the octane

I don't know if the higher octane fuel would do to the saw's

One thing I did want was leaded fuel so the saw's would run cooler

I will talk with there rep before I get my next 5 gallon bucket of fuel

I try to learn more every day

Leaded fuels don't burn cooler.. ms 98 my make your engine run cooler because it's distallation curve isn't that great for a two stroke. It also might make less power unless your heavily loaded.

 

[Brian Simonseth]

Leaded fuels don't burn cooler.. ms 98 my make your engine run cooler because it's distallation curve isn't that great for a two stroke. It also might make less power unless your heavily loaded.

I just wrote down what was told to me

 

[Canadian farm boy]

@bwalker Im curious now. What is it that I'm wrong about? I'm not a fuel expert nor claim to be. I was just saying what I believed to be true. Please feel free to correct me. I want to learn

 

[Kozak Logging]

The higher octane, the cooler the engine runs. The less EGT's are emitted. I ran race quads on dynos, built em, done all that. I tested almost all fuel's that are around my area. The higher the octane the longer and more effeciant and cleaner the combustion chamber burns. I'm just being honest and stating what statistics and facts I know. I also know that aviation fuel with lead "100 octane" will run even cooler than 108 octane Turbo blue race fuel\race gasoline. The reason why is this, lead is lubrication to help top end move free'er. I also toyed with running a small mix of 2 cycle gas mix into a gas tank on a race quad. 3/4 gal reg pump gas with 1/2 gal of pre-mix 50:1. I made 1 hp more on consequtive pulls. Reason why "same reason as why leaded fuel makes more" More lubrication and quicker revs due to added oil. Lead also add power due to "the lead adding compression to cylinders".

 

[Kozak Logging]

Pre-ignition is what causes a engine to run hotter. The higher the octane the less pre-ignition "the less heat is made". The longer the burn cycle the cooler and less pre-ignition. This is also why in cars higher octane gets better mpg. Why saws also rev faster and run harder on lower octane. Gas burns differently when outside a engine vs inside one under compression.

 

[skidooguy]

Just curious but what is si-7 compared to h1-r? Have ran h1-r in my bikes before but don't recall what si-7 was.

 

[Kozak Logging]

Bel-Ray® Si-7 Full Synthetic 2T Engine Oil is a 2-stroke motorcycle oil specifically formulated for use in injector/autolube systems, but can be used as pre-mix. Formulated to reduce smoke and carbon residue while providing the highest level of protection for all 2-stroke engines. Bel-Ray Si-7 meets the JASO FD and ISO-L-EGD ratings ensuring the highest level of detergency for better performing, longer running engines.

Bel-Ray® H1-R Racing 100% Synthetic Ester 2T Engine Oil is formulated for all power valve 2-stroke engines. Advanced 100% synthetic ester base oils cling to metal, preventing wear in all 2-stroke applications. Bel-Ray® H1-R Racing 100% Synthetic Ester 2T Engine Oil is clean burning to prevent carbon build-up in combustion chambers and power valve mechanisms. Not suitable for methanol fuel. 2013 CIK-FIA Certified for use in high performance racing kart applications.

 

[bwalker]

@bwalker Im curious now. What is it that I'm wrong about? I'm not a fuel expert nor claim to be. I was just saying what I believed to be true. Please feel free to correct me. I want to learn

Higher octane fuels burn no slower nor cooler than lower octane fuels on average. In fact slower burning fuel would have the effect of lowering the octane rating.

 

[jake wells]

I burn 87 i don't worry about octane, Every thing i own is stock and does fine running it i tried the 87 vs 90 octane in trimmer last summer and the only difference was the temp it ran slightly cooler but maybe 10-15 degrees i didn't even notice it.

 

[Keith Gandy]

http://www.racegas.com/article/10

 

[bwalker]

The higher octane, the cooler the engine runs. The less EGT's are emitted. I ran race quads on dynos, built em, done all that. I tested almost all fuel's that are around my area. The higher the octane the longer and more effeciant and cleaner the combustion chamber burns. I'm just being honest and stating what statistics and facts I know. I also know that aviation fuel with lead "100 octane" will run even cooler than 108 octane Turbo blue race fuel\race gasoline. The reason why is this, lead is lubrication to help top end move free'er. I also toyed with running a small mix of 2 cycle gas mix into a gas tank on a race quad. 3/4 gal reg pump gas with 1/2 gal of pre-mix 50:1. I made 1 hp more on consequtive pulls. Reason why "same reason as why leaded fuel makes more" More lubrication and quicker revs due to added oil. Lead also add power due to "the lead adding compression to cylinders".

No, higher octane does not cause a motor to run lower temps. With that said I have noticed lower EGT'S with certain high octane fuels. This is related to the fact that the end point of these fuels is such that they pass through uncombusted and thus lower egt.
Most of what you posted is old wives tales that are completely false.

 

[bwalker]

Pre-ignition is what causes a engine to run hotter. The higher the octane the less pre-ignition "the less heat is made". The longer the burn cycle the cooler and less pre-ignition. This is also why in cars higher octane gets better mpg. Why saws also rev faster and run harder on lower octane. Gas burns differently when outside a engine vs inside one under compression.

Preignition either happens or it doesnt. And making the burn cycle linger would maken pre ignition and detonation more likely, not less.
The reason cars getting better mileage on high octane fuels is because their engine management computers advance their timing more as compared to a lower octane fuel.

 

[Keith Gandy]

No, higher octane does not cause a motor to run lower temps. With that said I have noticed lower EGT'S with certain high octane fuels. This is related to the fact that the end point of these fuels is such that they pass through uncombusted and thus lower egt.

Unburned fuel would have more of a cooling effect and mixed with an oil that doesnt combust as easily would tend to make the engine run cooler and wash the piston wouldnt it Ben?

 

[bwalker]

Unburned fuel would have more of a cooling effect and mixed with an oil that doesnt combust as easily would tend to make the engine run cooler and wash the piston wouldnt it Ben?

Yes.

 

[bwalker]

In a chainsaw used for work the main thing is to use a fuel that doesn't have ethanol in it. Other than that the compression ratios are so low it really doesn't matter what the octane number is. I run premium in all my two strokes, but that's because premium is the only non ethanol fuel available.

 

[Redbull661]

simple google search...

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-high-vs-low-octane-petrol/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating


fyi - all my recent Stihl manuals say "use mid-grad unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 (R+M/2) and no more than 10% ethanol content." Key word = MINIMUM octane rating of 89

 

[Keith Gandy]

In a chainsaw used for work the main thing is to use a fuel that doesn't have ethanol in it. Other than that the compression ratios are so low it really doesn't matter what the octane number is. I run premium in all my two strokes, but that's because premium is the only non ethanol fuel available.

So in these short 2 stroke saws with 240psi its not necessary or has an advantage to run a high octane fuel that offers resistance to detonation? Have u ever heard a saw detonate?

 

[bwalker]

oil info... make up, viscosity, flash point



Stihl Ultra - http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf
Base Oil: Trimethylolpropane ComplexEster 80-90%
additive mixture - 0-20%

Flash point 432F
Visc @ 100c = 8.5
------------------

Husky - http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/huse/huse2010_euenapen/huse2010_euenapen_cms-s002_.pdf
Highly refined Mineral Oil - greater than 40%
distillate (petroleum) - 15-25%
polyolefin phenol - greater than 5%

Flash Point - 167F
Visc @ 100c = ~8.4
----------------------------------

Dumonde DTP - http://dumondetech.com/new-dumonde/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/dtp_MSDS.pdf

Flash point - 221F
Visc @ 100c - we'd all like to know! It's been impossible to get a hold of the company.

--------------------------------------------

Yamalube - https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/docs/MSDS_Yamaha_Yamalube 2R.pdf

additive mixture = 16-20%
Pour Depressant mixture = <.5%
Solvent = 10-15%
Base Oil = 54-75%
Blue Dye = <.5%

Flash Point = 255F
Visc @ 100c = 8.5
------------------------------

Klotz R50 - https://www.klotzlube.com/Ecommerce/site/content/PDFs/MSDS/MSDS-2014-KL-102.pdf

"Not applicable" ???????

Flash Point = 550F
Visc @ 100c = 19.1
------------------------------

Klotz Super Techniplate

https://www.klotzlube.com/ecommerce/product/kl-100/super-techniplate-synthetic

Flash Point = 460F
Visc @ 100c = 22.4

-----------------------------------
Honda Hp2 - http://prohondaoils.com/engine-oils/2-stroke-engines/

I don't have a direct link to msds. But did attach pdf file to this post.

Flash point - 221F
Visc @ 100c - 17.8

-----------------------------------
Motul 710 2T - http://www.motovan.com/img/marketing/pdf/Motul/MSDS eng/710 2T.pdf
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/38/710 2T (GB).pdf?1324312083

Naphtha petroleum hydrotreated - less than 30%

nothing else shown

Flash Point - 190 F
Visc @ 100c = 8.9
------------------------------------


Motul 800 2t OFF road - https://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/77816/original/800_2T_Factory_Line_Off_Road_TDS_(GB).pdf?1388420014

msds - http://www.quickfds.com/out/17287-57965-18051-016468.pdf

Polyamine Succinimide - 2.5 - 10%
2,6-DI-TERT-BUTYLPHENOL 0-2.5%
Alkarylsulfonate - 0-2.5%

Flash point = 485F
Visc @ 100c = 15.5


----------------------------------------

Mobil 1 - 2t racing (from what people have told me this is the same as mx2t)

I don't have a direct link to the msds but have attached a pdf of it. I think they stopped making this stuff in the USA in about 2009. But it's still sold in Europe?

Flash Point - 212 F says 158 on the msds I have but the most common number I've seen has always been 212. So in short it's hard to tell since it's very hard oil to find at this point...don't know what your getting.
Visc @ 100c - 12.7

---------------------------------------
Belray H1R - http://www.belray.com/sites/default...ter 2t engine oil item 99280 us_english_0.pdf

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-h1-r-racing-100-synthetic-ester-2t-engine-oil


"This product considered not hazardous..."

note - contacted belray for approx make up
base oil: Proprietary Ester blend = ~90%
additive mixture = ~10%

Flash Point = 395F
Visc @ 100c = 12.4
-----------------------------------------

Belray Si-7 - http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-si-7-synthetic-2t-engine-oil

Flash point -
Visc @ 100c - 7.8

----------------------------------------------

Amsoil - http://www.amsoil.com/msds/atp.pdf
Synthetic Ester = 30-60%
Butnene homopolymer - 30-60%
Solvent naphtha = 10-30%
n,n di sec butylphenylenediamine .1%

Flash Point = 216F
Visc @ 100c = 11.1
-----------------------------

Lucus - http://lucasoil.com/pdf/SDS_2-Cycle-Snowmobile-Oil.pdf

Solvent naphtha petroleum = 10-30%
1 decene, homopolymer hydyrogenated = 10-30%

doesn't show anything else.

Flash Point = 175F
Visc @ 100c = 7.5
--------------------------------

Maxima K2 - http://www.maximausa.com/msds/2stroke/Formula K2.pdf
http://www.maximausa.com/product/formula-k2/

Synthetic Ester Base Stock = 65-75%
Solvent Naphtha = 5-10%
Polybutene = 5-15%
Multi functional additive mixture = 5-15%

Flash Point = 240F
Visc @ 100c= 13.6
---------------------------------

Maxima 927 - http://www.maximausa.com/msds/2stroke/Castor 927.pdf
http://www.maximausa.com/product/castor-927/

modified fatty acid ester = <50% "fatty acid ester"? LOL
castor Oil = 50-70%
additive mixture = 10-20%

Flash Point = 420F
Visc @ 100c = 13.8
-------------------------------------

Woodland Pro synthetic- http://www.baileysonline.com/msds_sheets/PDFs/wp_synthetic.pdf
performance additive = 5-12%
high flash solvent = 22-27%
base oil - synthetic = 45-57%
Blue Dye = ~ .5%
Low smoke additive = 30-40%
fuel stabilizer - less than 2%

Flash Point = 210F
Visc @ 100c = 7.2
--------------------------------------

Shindaiwa red armor - http://www.shindaiwa-usa.com/getattachment/9ee40453-a8f5-4647-988b-b20ebe5afe03

Polybutene = 15-40%
Proprietary Ester = 10-30%
Distillates (petroleum) = 10-30%
Highly refined petroleum lubricant oils = 10-30%
Hydrocarbyl amine = 7-13%
alkyl imidazoline = 1-5%
Alkarylamine = less than 2%
Solvent naphta = less than 2%

Flash Point = 163F
Visc @ 100c = 10.3
-----------------------------------------

Schaffer's 7000 - (what tree monkey uses... 32:1)

http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme-7000-synthetic-2-cycle.html

Flash point = 187F
Visc @ 100c = ~7.7
----------------------------------------

Flash point can sometimes tell you if an oil has a diluent and not much else. It's certainly no clue as to what an oil will do in a motor.
Likewise viscosity only tells you what the viscosity of the blended fluid is, not the actual viscosity of the oil lubricating your motor. I think some would be supprised to see what the viscosity of one of the oils using a diluent is once said diluent has flashed to vapor inside a running motor.