What oil is best? and what ratio?

[JRHAWK9]

Just curious how you come to that conclusion. Are there test results you can share?

Here ya go. They disprove bwalker's opinion though.

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

Who is the Motor Oil Geek? I'm a Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Monitoring Analyst (I've maintained both of those for over a decade). I also worked for Joe Gibbs Racing for 12 years as their lubricant specialist. During that time, we worked with Wix Filters (one of our sponsors) to test and develop filters for our race engines. We also worked with Lubrizol and Chevron-Phillips Chemical to test and develop oils for our race cars. Following that, I was the head of R&D for Driven Racing Oil. During that time, I formulated, developed and tested over 50 new products. We also worked with Cummins, Comp Cams, Oak Ridge National Labs and General Motors on various R&D products. Those efforts are recorded in peer reviewed white papers published by SAE International and ACS Sustainable Chemistry journals. I also own and operate SPEEDiagnostix, which provides used oil analysis.

 

[Chumango]

I saw that video and the results of the AAA test. I was just curious if there are other tests that disprove what they say.

I don't know why the car manufacturers would care about it enough to create the standard if it makes no difference. I suspect they did their own testing that showed the benefit before rolling the program out.

About - TOP TIER™

TOP TIER™ is recognized as a high-quality fuel performance specification developed by some of the leading automotive and heavy-duty equipment manufacturers.

www.toptiergas.com

 

[MtnHaul]

I don't know why the car manufacturers would care about it enough to create the standard if it makes no difference.

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Money, money, money. If "they" can steer customers to their "Top Tier" fuel instead of cheaper gas at another station then "they" win. Why is gas at Chevron & Shell always more expensive? Is it really that much better? I can only speak for prices in my area but Chevron & Shell are always priced significantly higher.

 

[bwalker]

Here ya go. They disprove bwalker's opinion though.

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

Here ya go. They disprove bwalker's opinion though.

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

My opinion is it doesn't matter and that if you inspected a motor run long term on such fuel you could tell the differance.
My current truck has been run on top tier fuel( from my employer) for the last 8 years and 150k miles. The last time I replaced the plugs I also checked the piston and valves out with my bore scope. Looked like every other 4 cycle I have been into.

 

[bwalker]

Just curious how you come to that conclusion. Are there test results you can share?

By actually inspecting an engine run long term on the stuff.

 

[bwalker]

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Money, money, money. If "they" can steer customers to their "Top Tier" fuel instead of cheaper gas at another station then "they" win. Why is gas at Chevron & Shell always more expensive? Is it really that much better? I can only speak for prices in my area but Chevron & Shell are always priced significantly higher.

The company I work for also has the highest price fuel in my area. I can assure you its not because its vastly different in quality. I only buy it because I get a slight discount on it.
For non E saw/ope fuel I buy from Exxon, because they have a dedicated pump for it close to my house.

 

[bwalker]

Top Tier is mostly about preventing injector plugging and intake valve fouling.
Who has ever had an injector plug? I sure haven't and I run my vehicles for 10 or more years. I have had intake valves foul, but that was on a GDI engine which top tier wouldn't have prevented because fuel never touches the intake valves.
If one really wanted to reduce deposits in a auto disconnect your PCV valve and route it to a catch can.

 

[MtnHaul]

For non E saw/ope fuel I buy from Exxon, because they have a dedicated pump for it close to my house.

So envious. Getting E0 locally is always a PITA unless you want to pay for Stihls 4-cycle Moto fuel or whatever they call it--$30/gallon.

 

[bwalker]

So envious. Getting E0 locally is always a PITA unless you want to pay for Stihls 4-cycle Moto fuel or whatever they call it--$30/gallon.

I can get it at quit a few places. It just happens that the ExxonMobil closest to my house has a dedicated pump for it.

 

[bwalker]

The other thing to consider when it comes to testing is those tests have parameters and thus results that dont transfer over to the real world. How you run a motor effects it just as much as what you feed it with.

 

[Chumango]

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Money, money, money. If "they" can steer customers to their "Top Tier" fuel instead of cheaper gas at another station then "they" win. Why is gas at Chevron & Shell always more expensive? Is it really that much better? I can only speak for prices in my area but Chevron & Shell are always priced significantly higher.

Chevron and Shell are the same price as any other name brand in my area regardless of whether they are Top Tier or not. Where my brother lives (CA) Chevron is significantly more expensive than all other Top Tier.

The auto makers sponsor the Top Tier program. They don't sell the fuel, so I still don't see why they would spend money on it (sponsor) if it makes no difference when they don't own the gas stations.

 

[Chumango]

The other thing ro consider when it comes to testing is those tests have parameters and thus results that dont transfer over to the real world. How you run a motor effects it just as much as what you feed it with.

Maybe true, but AAA did the test according to a standard. As you note, any given engine/use pattern might give different results, but a standard is a standard to...standardize, hopefully eliminating spurious variables. Looking inside an engine or two that were not subject to a standardized test is not statistically significant.

 

[Chumango]

By actually inspecting an engine run long term on the stuff.

Compared with engines that we were known to not use Top Tier fuel?

 

[bwalker]

Compared with engines that we were known to not use Top Tier fuel?

Yes, I have been inspecting engines for years.
Have even inspected auto engines run long term on 50:1 marine oil.

 

[bwalker]

Maybe true, but AAA did the test according to a standard. As you note, any given engine/use pattern might give different results, but a standard is a standard to...standardize, hopefully eliminating spurious variables. Looking inside an engine or two that were not subject to a standardized test is not statistically significant.

The test was only 4000 miles IIRC. There is still all sorts of variables in that test.
And yes the inspections i have done are anecdotal, but if indeed it was 19x cleaner, one would think you would see some differance.

 

[bwalker]

Chevron and Shell are the same price as any other name brand in my area regardless of whether they are Top Tier or not. Where my brother lives (CA) Chevron is significantly more expensive than all other Top Tier.

The auto makers sponsor the Top Tier program. They don't sell the fuel, so I still don't see why they would spend money on it (sponsor) if it makes no difference when they don't own the gas stations.

Maybe they are getting a kick back? Or its a pay to play type thing.

 

[MtnHaul]

Chevron and Shell are the same price as any other name brand in my area regardless of whether they are Top Tier or not. Where my brother lives (CA) Chevron is significantly more expensive than all other Top Tier.

The auto makers sponsor the Top Tier program. They don't sell the fuel, so I still don't see why they would spend money on it (sponsor) if it makes no difference when they don't own the gas stations.

Collusion?

 

[Chumango]

Maybe they are getting a kick back? Or its a pay to play type thing.

Maybe it's naive, but I like to take a more optimistic view of the car makers in this case. They have a vested interest in that they don't want to have a reputation of cars that don't run very well.

I don't know how to find out if the car makers get any money back from what I presume the fuel producers need to pay to become part of the program. I have not looked into what it takes to be listed on their site.

 

[Chumango]

Collusion?

Competition? When I say the same price, I mean within a penny or two either way. I tanked up at Shell yesterday for $2.22. Everyone else in the area is close to that. My wife paid $1.99 at Costco last week, but they have their own pricing structure. Costco has a more significant detergent package than most other top tier fuels.

My brother is seeing $4.59 at Chevron and $3.79 at Arco, the least expensive top tier in his area. Across The street from Chevron is 76, where the price is $3.99.

 

[bwalker]

Competition? When I say the same price, I mean within a penny or two either way. I tanked up at Shell yesterday for $2.22. Everyone else in the area is close to that. My wife paid $1.99 at Costco last week, but they have their own pricing structure. Costco has a more significant detergent package than most other top tier fuels.

My brother is seeing $4.59 at Chevron and $3.79 at Arco, the least expensive top tier in his area. Across The street from Chevron is 76, where the price is $3.99.

In my area most stations are top tier so there is no real price difference.