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CLEARCUT

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Are those Ponderosa pine? I was under the impression they survived having the bark burned and will recover.
The majority of these are all Douglas fir, plus a lot of this crown-fired, so that generally does the trees in. If it was a low-intensity ground fire, then it could actually be beneficial, but this was not the case here.
 

SpaceBus

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The majority of these are all Douglas fir, plus a lot of this crown-fired, so that generally does the trees in. If it was a low-intensity ground fire, then it could actually be beneficial, but this was not the case here.
I'm sure the resin filled bark doesn't do the tree any favors in a fire. Our forest is almost entirely red/black spruce and Balsam fir and I don't think it would do well in a fire since the oldest trees are around 60 years old tops.
 

jacob j.

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The majority of these are all Douglas fir, plus a lot of this crown-fired, so that generally does the trees in. If it was a low-intensity ground fire, then it could actually be beneficial, but this was not the case here.

From the photos I've seen, I think most of Archie Creek is pretty much stand replacement fire, pushed by the dry cold front we got on the 7th with the east winds. That's identical to what happened on the Biscuit fire.
 

jacob j.

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Ive read that a lot of these fires can be prevented or reduced in size by doing selective logging. Any truth to that? If so one would reason that millions of acres of trees either burn or die of old age? Wasted. Now couple that with a lumber shortage and your back to square one...logging.

Logging is part of the answer for sure, and so is re-introducing fire to the landscape in areas that were formerly prone to fire. The biggest problem right now isn't climate change, it's forest and land mismanagement. It started in the 60's mainly in California, where the enviro-whackos wanted everything locked up. They started suing anyone who wanted to log or cut trees, and then lobbied state government to enact legislation that made it very difficult for private landowners to log or do development on their own lands. That's the main key in the mega-fires they're having now. My good buddy went down and worked on the Edison right-of-way job for three years and he said there's hundreds of thousands of large legacy snags in utility and public right-of-ways because any kind of cutting was forbidden for three decades. Now they have such a problem, it's going to cost millions and take twenty years to address. In the mean time, we'll continue to have mega-fires and environmental groups like the Sierra Club refuse to take any kind of responsibility.

Another factor is fire suppression - we've helped create our own problem by putting out all fires for the preceding 120 years. If we had let some fires burn in the 30's-90's, we'd be a lot better off.

The answer is gonna be: 1. - Selective Logging and fuels reduction, 2.- Creating more broad-scale fuel breaks where wildland interfaces with developed/urban areas, 3.- Running more controlled fire through the landscape, 4.- Really educating landowners on appropriate/responsible land management.
 

tickbitintn

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Logging is part of the answer for sure, and so is re-introducing fire to the landscape in areas that were formerly prone to fire. The biggest problem right now isn't climate change, it's forest and land mismanagement. It started in the 60's mainly in California, where the enviro-whackos wanted everything locked up. They started suing anyone who wanted to log or cut trees, and then lobbied state government to enact legislation that made it very difficult for private landowners to log or do development on their own lands. That's the main key in the mega-fires they're having now. My good buddy went down and worked on the Edison right-of-way job for three years and he said there's hundreds of thousands of large legacy snags in utility and public right-of-ways because any kind of cutting was forbidden for three decades. Now they have such a problem, it's going to cost millions and take twenty years to address. In the mean time, we'll continue to have mega-fires and environmental groups like the Sierra Club refuse to take any kind of responsibility.

Another factor is fire suppression - we've helped create our own problem by putting out all fires for the preceding 120 years. If we had let some fires burn in the 30's-90's, we'd be a lot better off.

The answer is gonna be: 1. - Selective Logging and fuels reduction, 2.- Creating more broad-scale fuel breaks where wildland interfaces with developed/urban areas, 3.- Running more controlled fire through the landscape, 4.- Really educating landowners on appropriate/responsible land management.

It's going to be a long hard road to get back to how it should be. If that can ever happen.
Mother nature keeping things in check was "overridden" by the "enviro-whackos" who "knew" how things should be.
There are a lot of lessons to be learned from this but it just seems the whackos want to blame it on something else.
Like global warming (they couldn't have been wrong!)

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Logging is part of the answer for sure, and so is re-introducing fire to the landscape in areas that were formerly prone to fire. The biggest problem right now isn't climate change, it's forest and land mismanagement. It started in the 60's mainly in California, where the enviro-whackos wanted everything locked up. They started suing anyone who wanted to log or cut trees, and then lobbied state government to enact legislation that made it very difficult for private landowners to log or do development on their own lands. That's the main key in the mega-fires they're having now. My good buddy went down and worked on the Edison right-of-way job for three years and he said there's hundreds of thousands of large legacy snags in utility and public right-of-ways because any kind of cutting was forbidden for three decades. Now they have such a problem, it's going to cost millions and take twenty years to address. In the mean time, we'll continue to have mega-fires and environmental groups like the Sierra Club refuse to take any kind of responsibility.

Another factor is fire suppression - we've helped create our own problem by putting out all fires for the preceding 120 years. If we had let some fires burn in the 30's-90's, we'd be a lot better off.

The answer is gonna be: 1. - Selective Logging and fuels reduction, 2.- Creating more broad-scale fuel breaks where wildland interfaces with developed/urban areas, 3.- Running more controlled fire through the landscape, 4.- Really educating landowners on appropriate/responsible land management.

I had deleted my post because i felt it was sidelining the thread too much. Getting it set up for an argument by some damn hippies that might be hiding in our midst.

From the outside looking in I believe you hit the nail on the head. Its just common sense and there seems to be lack there of nowadays.
 
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tickbitintn

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I had deleted my post because i felt it was sidelining the thread too much. Getting it set up for an argument by some damn hippies that might be hiding in our midst.

From the outside looking in I believe you hit the nail on the head. Its just common sense and their seems to be lack there of nowadays.
In my opinion your post is not a derail...
It was just asking a honest question that should be able to get an "educated" answer from people with years of experience in the field.
I think everyone in this thread is interested in learning about proper (safe) and responsible cutting or helping to inform on it.
I'm here for that and some incredible pictures of nature's beauty.

There is a lot of experience and knowledge in here that is being shared. I sure enjoy this thread and would like to thank all of it's contributors.

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MustangMike

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I was shaking my head watching comments on the news.

I'm trying to avoid talking politics, but it was like they were saying the last 4 years has created global warming and if someone else were in power they could stop it. That grown people who vote actually believe this scares me!

Excellent posts above, and I'm sure more housing in vulnerable areas is also a factor. It is similar to the hurricane comparisons, when there are far more structures in the way, there will be far more damage from similar storms.
 

tickbitintn

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I was shaking my head watching comments on the news.

I'm trying to avoid talking politics, but it was like they were saying the last 4 years has created global warming and if someone else were in power they could stop it. That grown people who vote actually believe this scares me!

Excellent posts above, and I'm sure more housing in vulnerable areas is also a factor. It is similar to the hurricane comparisons, when there are far more structures in the way, there will be far more damage from similar storms.
You still can watch the news??? Lol

I can see the headlines already....

"Coronavirus created by Trump shown to cause global warming"
Lmao

Seriously though...
These are some crazy times.
It's hard to believe that people seem to have lost any sort of common sense and just blindly believe anything that they hear or see on social media or wherever..

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tickbitintn

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jacob j.

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I had deleted my post because i felt it was sidelining the thread too much. Getting it set up for an argument by some damn hippies that might be hiding in our midst.

From the outside looking in I believe you hit the nail on the head. Its just common sense and there seems to be lack there of nowadays.

Actually, the hippies have taken a bum rap for the most part. The people that have done the most damage are the high-ranking members of the most extreme groups - Sierra Club, Cascadia Wild, Umpqua Watersheds to name three.

These people are doctors, lawyers, business owners, civic leaders - they have money and most of them have a distorted view of what the landscape should be that was actually borne out of misinformation campaigns that started
in the 40's, 50's and 60's. "KEEP OREGON GREEN" was one of these, and that actually started in WW2 to help keep the Japanese from lighting western forests on fire. It became an everyday anthem that taught baby boomers
that all fire and deforestation is bad.

What they don't realize is that before the Europeans settled this continent, there were vast plains and meadows in the west, created by Native Americans, to keep game animals around for easy prey. Those meadows and plains
have now been encroached upon by fast-growing regenerative forest cover in the absence of fire.

I was shaking my head watching comments on the news.

I'm trying to avoid talking politics, but it was like they were saying the last 4 years has created global warming and if someone else were in power they could stop it. That grown people who vote actually believe this scares me!

Excellent posts above, and I'm sure more housing in vulnerable areas is also a factor. It is similar to the hurricane comparisons, when there are far more structures in the way, there will be far more damage from similar storms.

That's a big part of it too - people work long careers in urban areas where they make good money, and then they want to retire and take it easy out in the country. So they buy a chunk of land in the woods and set up shop.

The big problem is, no one has told them that they can't let trees and brush grow close to their homes and outbuildings. When I was doing structure protection on the big fires, calculating access was the first thing we did,
and then calculating the vegetative component around the structure was the second thing we did. If it was more than what five guys could handle in 15 minutes, we moved on to the next house.
 

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SpaceBus

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You would probably describe me as a hippy, and I do believe in human assisted climate change, but the forest fire issue was not caused by environmentalists. The fires are caused by ineffective forestry practices, which have been mentioned, but that is not the same thing as environmentalists. We all grew up hearing how dangerous forest fires are, how we have to stop fires at all costs, etc. etc. Then consider the extra flammable landscaping around all these houses that are burning down, juniper, arborvitae, etc. Exclusively replanting Douglas Fir, or any other monoculture forest, is absolute horrible for forest fires, environmental health, and biodiversity. These are the issues, not folks who want to preserve forests. If a logger is smart then they will also be an environmentalist. If a logger wants their kids to have logs to cut down then they better want the best for the environment.

This whole mentality that folks who love the environment also hate progress is just propaganda by companies that don't care about the future. I love the environment, but that's because I want a livable future, continued game hunting, logging, milling lumber, hiking, fishing, taking my dog to the beach, and countless other activities. On the other hand I love fire breathing V8's, side draft carbs, drag strips, road courses, autocross, off road racing, and a lot of other fossil fueled activities. Electric propulsion is taking over, but there will still be combustion engines for many years, at least until we are dead. Honestly though, silent backhoes, tractors, excavators, semi trucks, and fishing boats are going to be awesome. With a heavy heart I traded in my 03 Mach 1 and 2015 Yamaha FZ-09, neither of which were stock, for my 06 Cummins before moving up here. The roads here are beautiful and curvy, but those rides were not set up for rough roads, plus I get into too much trouble on a 115 HP bike that weighs 400 lbs.
 

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SB, I partly agree with you, but wat JJ is saying is also true.

A lot of these groups are just extreme, and they are not truly environmental groups. It is like a lot of them have trouble grasping that Teddy R. was both and avid Hunter and environmentalist, and established protected areas for wildlife and nature.

I'm glad that your view is different than the extremists.
 
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