Tree cutting skills. Be careful who you learn or take advise from

[Dustin4185]

Western falling isn't the only game in town - a few years ago, some western fallers were sent east to cut hazard trees on a big fire in North Carolina - a couple ended up getting hurt pretty bad because
they misjudged the felling sequence and limb weight of big hardwoods.

I have been through the USFS S212 several times and cut quite a bit with fallers for them. The last class had a guy teaching that had came from Oregon. Great faller, but he admitted there was a huge learning curve when he came to the Cherokee Hotshots in east TN. Holding wood, judging lean and weight, judging if the tree is hollow or not, all plays into the plan to get the tree on the ground safely. The biggest issue I have ever had is not looking up enough while cutting. I’ve been told several times “what’s up there is what will kill you”! I’ve learned a lot cutting with guys like that, but they aren’t timber cutters. Everything is high stumped and then go back and cut the block lower.

 

[Cat 525]

I would be the first one to step out with my 25 years of western softwood timber cutting experience and tell you I would be afraid to sink my saw into a oak or other standing hardwood without a seasoned mentor by my side. I might know a thing or two about a thing or two cutten trees, but hardwoods are not my game.

I understand you guys! Have never been west but know I would be lost without guidance out there. Have only logged hardwoods here. 80% would be walnut with rest oak and ash. It's all different timber but we all need to be safe!
I also thought I knew alot more when I was young! Survived it long enough to know what I didn't know then!

 

[Catman]

Reg Coates is the Top Climber in My Book!

 

[Normzilla]

I would be the first one to step out with my 25 years of western softwood timber cutting experience and tell you I would be afraid to sink my saw into a oak or other standing hardwood without a seasoned mentor by my side. I might know a thing or two about a thing or two cutten trees, but hardwoods are not my game.

Agreed smart, definitely a different ball of wax if you have never been in it.

 

[Normzilla]

It’s not possible to pay attention to everything all at once. Stuff happens that’s out of our control. Tipping these trees over is a dangerous endeavor. It always has been, and blowdown hangers may be the most dangerous situation of all. It’s a freak accident, and at least it was quick and painless. Either way I’m more concerned for the crew he was working with. I’ve seen my fair share of people die, and the worst two I’ve ever had were when they were my people.



Oh man, I forgot Jepson’s book. That’s a good one. Also, I always thought it was interesting to hear the guys from R5/6 talking smack about our saw programs from the east side of the country, with me having worked in 5, 6, what was formerly 7, 8 and 9. Two different types of trees that behave differently. Big tops and short trees make for a more interesting ride, especially when it’s windy. I do think short, fat hardwoods with their brittle fibers are harder to get right, but when they go… They go. There is no nipping a hinge to “steer” the tree, and I think that’s why the humboldt never caught on, and why you see so many tall faces out here, just trying to get some travel before the hinge breaks.’

I never saw one set of methods as superior. I just learned what worked for me in specific types of timber. The other thing is actually getting trigger time on a saw tipping various types of trees, once you know the basics of not getting killed, is the most effective way to learn this stuff. The internet is great but no amount of gained knowledge will substitute for experience with this stuff.

It was cool being able to show some of the R8 guys other methods to handle softwood species in Georgia and the Carolinas out west. And wow they were surprised when some of them saw a 3/4 wrap handle in person.

Good stuff, so I'm guessing now when I'm throwing the west coast methods out there, many are not realizing all the hardwoods in CA, and much the same I'm not sure. But we deal with alot of the same stuff in hardwood. Again I've been fortunate to the exposure, not the taxes or politics. But it's made me a well rounded cutter and tree worker. Bit the main thing I'm shaking my head with is small saws and 20 inch bars boring every tree, I'm not wasting that gas or energy. I've done it, know how to do it, principles etc it's just another cutting style I see it's all good. And you are definitely right what you mention about cutting hardwoods, deal with the same here. Eucalyptus can be a challenge. Probably straight tan oak trees are ones here with good hinge wood but many others fall differently break loos early etc, we cut them accordingly. When I was younger Sudden oak death hit CA, killed some beautiful Tan oak trees, sad really. But I got to cut many and gain some skills, some of the biggest trees and limbs around, unbelievable 7 footers on the stumps, 5ft 6foot etc. They grew differently in this one area on King ridge road, up in open fields. Where it was logged years ago, 50s maybe. All coastal micro climate, biggest tan oaks we had ever seen, and limbs distributed all over the place. Had to get limb wait off almost all of them, backcut side, and pull many of them. It was crazy how the limbs folded out and up and grew that way from the wind. Some limbs were near 30 inches. Whish I had more photos, but wasn't as good and taking em younger. Well I was of my dogs and pigs those numbers you mentioned, are those crews or zones?

 

[Normzilla]

Reg Coates is the Top Climber in My Book!

Member here?

 

[Normzilla]

Here was a interesting 1, not abnormal for here pepperwood we call them. CA bay laurel species. Right next to a house

 

[Philbert]

I love this thread just for the title!

Most of my cutting has been storm damaged trees, already on (or partially) on the ground. A lot of guys are focused on felling, but those tangled messes have their own issues.

I know a lot of experienced people who responded to storms down south, and in Puerto Rico, who discovered that palm trees are entirely different than what they were used to cutting.

Staying open to learning, and being careful what you assume, seem to be critical.

Philbert

 

[Normzilla]

I love this thread just for the title!

Most of my cutting has been storm damaged trees, already on (or partially) on the ground. A lot of guys were focused on felling, but those tangled messes have their own issues.

I know a lot of experienced people who responded to storms down south, and in Puerto Rica, who discovered that palm trees are entirely different than what they were used to cutting.

Staying open to learning, and being careful what you assume, seem to be critical.

Philbert

Awesome and agree. Also agree on palms we charge extra, they can kick your but, cut you up. They are dirty, Nast, always seem to have a rat or 2 definitely extra work too, but a unique bastard.

 

[Catbuster]

Good stuff, so I'm guessing now when I'm throwing the west coast methods out there, many are not realizing all the hardwoods in CA, and much the same I'm not sure. But we deal with alot of the same stuff in hardwood. Again I've been fortunate to the exposure, not the taxes or politics. But it's made me a well rounded cutter and tree worker. Bit the main thing I'm shaking my head with is small saws and 20 inch bars boring every tree, I'm not wasting that gas or energy. I've done it, know how to do it, principles etc it's just another cutting style I see it's all good. And you are definitely right what you mention about cutting hardwoods, deal with the same here. Eucalyptus can be a challenge. Probably straight tan oak trees are ones here with good hinge wood but many others fall differently break loos early etc, we cut them accordingly. When I was younger Sudden oak death hit CA, killed some beautiful Tan oak trees, sad really. But I got to cut many and gain some skills, some of the biggest trees and limbs around, unbelievable 7 footers on the stumps, 5ft 6foot etc. They grew differently in this one area on King ridge road, up in open fields. Where it was logged years ago, 50s maybe. All coastal micro climate, biggest tan oaks we had ever seen, and limbs distributed all over the place. Had to get limb wait off almost all of them, backcut side, and pull many of them. It was crazy how the limbs folded out and up and grew that way from the wind. Some limbs were near 30 inches. Whish I had more photos, but wasn't as good and taking em younger. Well I was of my dogs and pigs those numbers you mentioned, are those crews or zones?

I don’t like short bars and bore cutting trees either, but after exposure to trees in various regions, Tan Oak and Bigleaf Maple, Eucalyptus, Black Ash and other west deciduous species don’t, generally, behave like east coast hardwoods. There is a huge difference between those species and others such as Shagbark Hickory, Red Oak, White Ash, and so on. Some species do overlap, Cottonwood/Tulip Poplar being a prime example. Sycamore can be found primarily from the east coast extending just into the plains states, but also in parts of California. West coast deciduous trees also generally grow taller and straighter than the trees found in most places east of the Mississippi river.

As far as checking for rot goes, that’s something that should be done one every tree. They can all hide something, and everybody who walks up to fell a tree meeds to be vigilant.

The numbers are regions of the U.S Forest Service. 6 is Oregon/Washington, 5 is California/Hawaii (but really just California), 8 is the Southeast region, 7 used to be a few states in the Northeast that were mountainous and cold in the winter, and 9 is the Eastern region, running from Minnesota/Iowa/Missouri to the Atlantic ocean north of the Ohio River. I’ve attached a region map.

Edited to… Uh…Maybe attach the image I said I did.

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

I’ve attached a region map.

Let me get that for ya.

 

[Catman]

Member here?

No, Australian climber check out his YouTube channel amazing work

 

[Catbuster]

Let me get that for ya.

Thanks… Oopsiedoodle

 

[davidwyby]

I don’t have near the experience most of y’all do. But I’m OCD and really get into whatever I get into.
On the stuff that doesn’t hinge that I usually cut in the desert, I control the direction with limb weight like Mr. Beranek told me. If in a logger situation in the forest, I spose one just has to go with the lean if you can’t adjust limb weight or have a pull line.

getting to cut pines that were easy to judge lean and hinged decent with @chiselbit (a guy who has done lots of different cutting for a long time) was a real treat…a lot easier and less stress than Eucs between houses, haha.


Hollow trees I have not had the pleasure of yet, but I hope to get some tree work in the mountains this summer, the Live Oaks are notoriously hollow.

@Philbert the recent pine leaning on the elms gave me a taste of that storm cleanup messy stuff. Challenging but fun once I started to get the hang of which way to cut to avoid pinch.

I think my little corner of CA should be Australia or something…

 

[jacob j.]

I have been through the USFS S212 several times and cut quite a bit with fallers for them. The last class had a guy teaching that had came from Oregon. Great faller, but he admitted there was a huge learning curve when he came to the Cherokee Hotshots in east TN. Holding wood, judging lean and weight, judging if the tree is hollow or not, all plays into the plan to get the tree on the ground safely. The biggest issue I have ever had is not looking up enough while cutting. I’ve been told several times “what’s up there is what will kill you”! I’ve learned a lot cutting with guys like that, but they aren’t timber cutters. Everything is high stumped and then go back and cut the block lower.

If I were to go to work for @Cat 525 or @Loony661 tomorrow - I'd probably have to learn the job all over again. For example - I was unaware that a guy needs to sever the base of a Walnut in order to save it out.

I can easily see why eastern techniques are why they are - Euro fallers have similar techniques although some of theirs are mandated by Euro safety governing agencies.

If @bitzer were to come around - he could contribute a lot to this discussion.

 

[Normzilla]

I don’t like short bars and bore cutting trees either, but after exposure to trees in various regions, Tan Oak and Bigleaf Maple, Eucalyptus, Black Ash and other west deciduous species don’t, generally, behave like east coast hardwoods. There is a huge difference between those species and others such as Shagbark Hickory, Red Oak, White Ash, and so on. Some species do overlap, Cottonwood/Tulip Poplar being a prime example. Sycamore can be found primarily from the east coast extending just into the plains states, but also in parts of California. West coast deciduous trees also generally grow taller and straighter than the trees found in most places east of the Mississippi river.

As far as checking for rot goes, that’s something that should be done one every tree. They can all hide something, and everybody who walks up to fell a tree meeds to be vigilant.

The numbers are regions of the U.S Forest Service. 6 is Oregon/Washington, 5 is California/Hawaii (but really just California), 8 is the Southeast region, 7 used to be a few states in the Northeast that were mountainous and cold in the winter, and 9 is the Eastern region, running from Minnesota/Iowa/Missouri to the Atlantic ocean north of the Ohio River. I’ve attached a region map.

Edited to… Uh…Maybe attach the image I said I did.

Cool map and regions etc thanks for sharing that. Tree wise I'm in agreement with ya, and it would have to be a new exposure thing, applying your learned skills and techniques and applying to that species. It's understandable l, because my first Eucalyptus was definitely a learning curve, reacted different to any tree we had ever cut. I get what your saying, would be new experiences.

 

[Normzilla]

Thanks… Oopsiedoodle

Thanks

 

[Normzilla]

Let me get that for ya.

Thank u too

 

[davidwyby]

I agree with norm, no short bars for me felling, and so does Walt.

 

[Normzilla]

No, Australian climber check out his YouTube channel amazing work

Cool thanks. And man Eucs are.sure harder on the climber, and gotta keep them spikes sharp. Anyone who works in Eucalyptus is legit.