Tree cutting skills. Be careful who you learn or take advise from

[Normzilla]

https://www.wesspur.com/videos/tree-climbing-videos.html

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Best book I've ever seen regarding tree work IMO

 

[Normzilla]

Thinking about consequences and Jed…I wonder how many die or get injured from tricky unseen gotchas like him and how many from doing the wrong thing?

Probably alot of both. I think the deaths of seasoned tree guys is high like that of green horns, it used to be anyway statistically. Just shows how dangerous for one, but we can't ever be too careful.

 

[davidwyby]

Probably alot of both. I think the deaths of seasoned tree guys is high like that of green horns, it used to be anyway statistically. Just shows how dangerous for one, but we can't even be careful.

Can’t watch the saw and the upper tree at the same time, can’t watch where you’re going while escaping and watch for flying stuff at the same time.

 

[Normzilla]

-G.F Beranek has a great couple of books.
-Douglas Dent has a book titled Professional Timber Falling that is the gold standard.
-Roy Hauser has a great book called The Art of Felling Timber, but it already assumes you can safely fall a tree and focuses on refinement of what you already know.

I dislike The Game of Logging. I really despise the extra time and work it takes to put a tree on the ground. But, I must concede it teaches probably the most foolproof way to safely put a tree on the ground.

August Hunicke is a great YouTuber. But he doesn’t go into great detail of the basics, you have to have a good idea of the fundamental principles of tree work to understand what he’s doing. Jacob Rogers and Jed Walters did a video a couple of years ago on the channel he had while he worked at Eastside Tree Works that was great. The best instructional videos in the internet today are the BC Faller Training series from WorkSafe BC. Otherwise, there’s a lot of junk, and a lot of stuff that’s not instructional but just guys tipping trees over.

*Edited for clarity… Then spelling.

I agree lots of good stuff u mentioned. I have dents book and Beraneks too. I like the toutube guys you mentioned alot. And Jacob Roger's is very talented, as was Jed. That was a solid falling video. Hot saws 101 Jack bealer is legit, humble but left tree faller. I've found most of the good tree guys have seemed more on Instagram lately. So I started using Instagram more, because obviously I'm a tree dude. Antone shlchalfer probably spelled last name wrong, has a logging company. We're becoming friends. I follow his stuff on Instagram, guys incredibly skilled. He does videos woth Jacob Rodgers and Gordy from west coast saws. Those 3 are tight and all real good. Solid info and knowledge. Bucking Billy Ray, solid knowledge and skills, some enjoy the channel some don't. I like his humor, but the guy can cut. Sometimes I fast forward past the long version. Lol. Imo Beranek is the best general tree worker that's ever lived.

 

[Loony661]

Can’t watch the saw and the upper tree at the same time, can’t watch where you’re going while escaping and watch for flying stuff at the same time.

This. You can only focus one place at a time. Although you could, and should be aware of the remaining surroundings, you can’t be every place at once. And it takes time and experience to determine where you should be focusing and when!

 

[Normzilla]

Well said Norm! I agree with so much here. As I stated in another thread earlier today, YouTube is a double edged sword: Great for those who understand and practice the basics and beyond, but at the same time very dangerous for someone who lacks knowledge and experience and doesn’t know what they can and cannot get away with. Every vid I watch I take with a grain of salt, and decide whether or not that method could be applied to the species of wood I cut, the terrain I cut on, etc. For those of us “in the know” we can make the decision for ourselves if a vid has actual knowledge and insight, or if it is just filled with BS and Ego. Jacob Rodgers is a great resource IMO. There are times when I’ve felt I can cut circles around him, but mostly, I appreciate that he’s clearly admitting that he is not a know-it-all and he provides the opportunity to learn something along with him. That takes guts. And the professionals he surrounds himself with are top notch.

Good stuff thank u

 

[Normzilla]

Can’t watch the saw and the upper tree at the same time, can’t watch where you’re going while escaping and watch for flying stuff at the same time.

Heads gotta stay on a swivel, and grow extra eyes, and I keep my left ear plug loos to hear any cracks, or pops or any change. But stuff can still hot or kill even the best of us. Cut look up back to the tree and around, keep moving eyes and head. Also have others of your crews eyes, my climber and eye watch spot look and pair up at times. Never have to many eyes. And on bad ones, I've had some from my crew, while I'm cutting, just watch tops and limbs, and told em anything moves or falls you yell lookout. As far as the tree with Jed I can't speak wasn't there, some stuff hides real well, and u never know even the best of us can miss something.

 

[Normzilla]

guys legit!

 

[Loony661]

guys legit!

I love this video. Actually showed it to my 6yr old this afternoon - he stayed interested the whole time and even asked some in depth questions. I was impressed!

 

[Normzilla]

@Catbuster I was really trying to challenge Norm in a friendly way to show us the right and wrong instead of just blanketing YouTube as junk. A greenhorn can’t tell if he’s getting good info or not because, as my grandpa would say, “You don’t know what you don’t know”.

I didn't blanket youtube as junk, I said the internet can be a great source of information but bad too, with misinformation, which youtube does have alot of yahoo's too, sadly many regarding trees.

 

[Normzilla]

I love this video. Actually showed it to my 6yr old this afternoon - he stayed interested the whole time and even asked some in depth questions. I was impressed!

Impresses me too, and I'm honored to be getting to know and chat back and forth, solid dude. Makes it look easy.

 

[Loony661]

Impresses me too, and I'm honored to be getting to know and chat back and forth, solid dude. Makes it look easy.

I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t a little bit jealous.

 

[Normzilla]

I will also ad, when I was young eager, and learning the game. Old or older than me fallers and tree guys would talk, and knowledge would be gained if you would listen. I wasn't always the best at it, and these guys would stop wasting their breath and time. I had to humble myself at a point, realizing I did not know it all, or at least be able to keep my mouth shut, while they offered a wealth of knowledge, and I gained value skills and experience. Just trying to rub elbows with locals in the trades around me.

 

[jacob j.]

I didn't blanket youtube as junk, I said the internet can be a great source of information but bad too, with misinformation, which youtube does have alot of yahoo's too, sadly many regarding trees.

I haven't seen too many hacks on Youtube that continue to get away with sketchy stuff without getting called out - although like Bob said the few hacks on there have gotten a following which is perplexing.

Beranek is flat-out the man when it comes to intelligent tree work and falling. Doug Dent was a great faller and teacher - I was lucky enough to meet him in person at one of his classes. Dent's book is all
about western falling and cutting big timber, whereas Beranek's book covers it all pretty well. Jeff Jepson's book is pretty decent also and approaches things more from the eastern point of view.

Western falling isn't the only game in town - a few years ago, some western fallers were sent east to cut hazard trees on a big fire in North Carolina - a couple ended up getting hurt pretty bad because
they misjudged the felling sequence and limb weight of big hardwoods.

 

[Normzilla]

I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t a little bit jealous.

It's cool too we know all the same locals, he lives above where I grew up on the coast in Mendocino county.nim in lake county now but still travel and work sonoma and near Mendocino County.

 

[Loony661]

I will also ad, when I was young eager, and learning the game. Old or older than me fallers and tree guys would talk, and knowledge would be gained if you would listen. I wasn't always the best at it, and these guys would stop wasting their breath and time. I had to humble myself at a point, realizing I did not know it all, or at least be able to keep my mouth shut, while they offered a wealth of knowledge, and I gained value skills and experience. Just trying to rub elbows with locals in the trades around me.

I think we all go through this phase at some point. I know I did. I knew it all until I didn’t know it all..

 

[Normzilla]

I haven't seen too many hacks on Youtube that continue to get away with sketchy stuff without getting called out - although like Bob said the few hacks on there have gotten a following which is perplexing.

Beranek is flat-out the man when it comes to intelligent tree work and falling. Doug Dent was a great faller and teacher - I was lucky enough to meet him in person at one of his classes. Dent's book is all
about western falling and cutting big timber, whereas Beranek's book covers it all pretty well. Jeff Jepson's book is pretty decent also and approaches things more from the eastern point of view.

Western falling isn't the only game in town - a few years ago, some western fallers were sent east to cut hazard trees on a big fire in North Carolina - a couple ended up getting hurt pretty bad because
they misjudged the felling sequence and limb weight of big hardwoods.

Nice, that's a pretty awesome piece of life to meet Dent. Never had a chance to look at Jepsons stuff, but would like too. I'm wondering on the hardwood accidents, just tough trees or were they strictly timber fallers inexperienced with hardwood too? One area I feel fortunate I've been able to get a good mix of both over the years. While early on I was more experienced in hardwoods.and big ones too, and some fir etc, but had not gotten onto super tall stuff. First redwood I got into was pretty tall ones, in my 20s, and slightly intimidating at first definitely a learning curve, into the life of a timber faller. You also mentioned fires, that's another great topic and learning curve. Never had I experienced or cut fire trees until the 2017 fires hit sonoma county. That was a different animal and learning curve of experience. Definitely more hazards and different stuff involved.

 

[Normzilla]

I think we all go through this phase at some point. I know I did. I knew it all until I didn’t know it all..

I sure was guilty.

 

[Catbuster]

Thinking about consequences and Jed…I wonder how many die or get injured from tricky unseen gotchas like him and how many from doing the wrong thing?

It’s not possible to pay attention to everything all at once. Stuff happens that’s out of our control. Tipping these trees over is a dangerous endeavor. It always has been, and blowdown hangers may be the most dangerous situation of all. It’s a freak accident, and at least it was quick and painless. Either way I’m more concerned for the crew he was working with. I’ve seen my fair share of people die, and the worst two I’ve ever had were when they were my people.

I haven't seen too many hacks on Youtube that continue to get away with sketchy stuff without getting called out - although like Bob said the few hacks on there have gotten a following which is perplexing.

Beranek is flat-out the man when it comes to intelligent tree work and falling. Doug Dent was a great faller and teacher - I was lucky enough to meet him in person at one of his classes. Dent's book is all
about western falling and cutting big timber, whereas Beranek's book covers it all pretty well. Jeff Jepson's book is pretty decent also and approaches things more from the eastern point of view.

Western falling isn't the only game in town - a few years ago, some western fallers were sent east to cut hazard trees on a big fire in North Carolina - a couple ended up getting hurt pretty bad because
they misjudged the felling sequence and limb weight of big hardwoods.

Oh man, I forgot Jepson’s book. That’s a good one. Also, I always thought it was interesting to hear the guys from R5/6 talking smack about our saw programs from the east side of the country, with me having worked in 5, 6, what was formerly 7, 8 and 9. Two different types of trees that behave differently. Big tops and short trees make for a more interesting ride, especially when it’s windy. I do think short, fat hardwoods with their brittle fibers are harder to get right, but when they go… They go. There is no nipping a hinge to “steer” the tree, and I think that’s why the humboldt never caught on, and why you see so many tall faces out here, just trying to get some travel before the hinge breaks.’

I never saw one set of methods as superior. I just learned what worked for me in specific types of timber. The other thing is actually getting trigger time on a saw tipping various types of trees, once you know the basics of not getting killed, is the most effective way to learn this stuff. The internet is great but no amount of gained knowledge will substitute for experience with this stuff.

It was cool being able to show some of the R8 guys other methods to handle softwood species in Georgia and the Carolinas out west. And wow they were surprised when some of them saw a 3/4 wrap handle in person.

 

[Funky sawman]

I haven't seen too many hacks on Youtube that continue to get away with sketchy stuff without getting called out - although like Bob said the few hacks on there have gotten a following which is perplexing.

Beranek is flat-out the man when it comes to intelligent tree work and falling. Doug Dent was a great faller and teacher - I was lucky enough to meet him in person at one of his classes. Dent's book is all
about western falling and cutting big timber, whereas Beranek's book covers it all pretty well. Jeff Jepson's book is pretty decent also and approaches things more from the eastern point of view.

Western falling isn't the only game in town - a few years ago, some western fallers were sent east to cut hazard trees on a big fire in North Carolina - a couple ended up getting hurt pretty bad because
they misjudged the felling sequence and limb weight of big hardwoods.

I would be the first one to step out with my 25 years of western softwood timber cutting experience and tell you I would be afraid to sink my saw into a oak or other standing hardwood without a seasoned mentor by my side. I might know a thing or two about a thing or two cutten trees, but hardwoods are not my game.