Time to stir some chit up!

[Chainsaw Jim]

I recently spoke with another dealer in my area who tells me that according to epa there is nothing you can do to your own chainsaw that is legal whether it be used for commercial or private use, not even max flow filters. He says he had to sign a compliance agreement with the manufacturer in order to be a dealer.


Today I spoke with EPA's regional office #10 in Seattle and was told there are no epa or caa regulations in place governing chainsaw use. They only govern items being imported, which means anywhere it is shipped, even if it's across town. That's why Rich the chainsaw guy always emphasises that the unit has been disabled and spark plug removed for shipping, so it classifies as parts only.
I asked about carb tuning and muffler modifications and was told that there are no regulations or laws governing that either.
I was told that the laws and regulations only cover imported items.


I'm waiting for a call from the Oregon office next week to get verification from a second source.

I would really like to see the law as its written on use of carb adjusting tools. You know...the $45,000 fine shops speak of when customers ask them for carb adjustment tools.
According to the epa there is no such law, but I'm tracking it down if there is.

 

[Stump Shot]

I have read the government report, such a thing does exist and yes, unless you are a certified two stroke technician, you shouldn't be touching a chainsaw or other small engines. There's just no enforcement arm to this, which is why the Chinese just laugh and make carb tools by the boat loads. That was before the EPA was realed back and not sure if it still applies or not. Is/was quite ridiculous though. I kinda laughed myself.

 

[paragonbuilder]

I have read the government report, such a thing does exist and yes, unless you are a certified two stroke technician, you shouldn't be touching a chainsaw or other small engines. There's just no enforcement arm to this, which is why the Chinese just laugh and make carb tools by the boat loads. That was before the EPA was realed back and not sure if it still applies or not. Is/was quite ridiculous though. I kinda laughed myself.

Got a copy of that report Steve?

 

[Stump Shot]

Got a copy of that report Steve?

No, I didn't save it or the link to it. I really didn't think much of it to change my way of thinking. It also laid out how the manufacturers had to certify their product every year whether changes were made or not. At the tune of tens of thousands for every model. I took it as a money grab and figured as long as I had none, no one would come a grabbin'. It also had a set limit for emissions and if some models were below said limit others could be above as long as it averaged out.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Something to consider, the US Forestry Service cares more about what we do to mufflers than the EPA, but then there are those cat mufflers too.

And is it possible that the big fines we always hear about would be levied against the manufacturer and not the individual in the case of a "violation".

 

[Stump Shot]

Here ya go, was mingled in with the USFS and EPA

https://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/02511204/02511204.htm

 

[Al Smith]

---and the horse they rode in on-----

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

Here ya go, was mingled in with the USFS and EPA

https://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/02511204/02511204.htm

That explains their regulation on saws used specifically for firefighting and is misleading.

 

[Stump Shot]

I took it as one branch of the governments compliance of another. EPA mandates are quoted extensively and is as close as I can find out about them. I'm guessing here that they deal mostly with manufacturers and might have some BS they spread to them to get compliance. As far as I can tell, no ones been fined for dickerin' with a power saw, but yet the myth persists. I seem to recall that our very own @Definitive Dave might have quit selling the adjustment tools, maybe he can shed some light on this more gooderer if so.

 

[traffic903]

Just one thing to think about. Regulations set out the "rules", so to speak, about what can and cannot be done in any given area of focus. But regulations ALONE are not what is important in deciding what you can and cannot do. It is the OFFENCE sections of the Regulations that are most applicable to us as users. For example, a regulation might say that a chainsaw carburetor cannot be modified in any way. However their needs to be an offence section somewhere in those regulations (or another piece of legislation binding it) which makes disobeying that regulation an offence, and sets out the penalty.

In a large majority of regulations, the people to whom those regulations apply are very specific. They may only bind a manufacturer, for example. Or an importer. Or dealer. So in assessing whether those regulations apply to you as a user you need ALL of the information and you need to know the offence sections.

And on a super quick final note, also check what EXEMPTIONS apply, just to be sure you have the fullest picture possible.

 

[cgraham1]

My saws all just use a flat screwdriver to adjust the carbs...

As far as I know, the only thing that USFS cops look for on a chainsaw is a spark screen in the muffler... if it’s there, and the holes are under a certain size, then you’re good. If not, you will probably get a ticket.

 

[cgraham1]

On private land you can use whatever you want, as long as you don’t start a fire that spreads outside of the private land...

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

Well here's what's what.
I just spoke with another epa employee who sent me a few links to what I was after.
I read through it says that anything handheld, manufactured after 2010 is subject to epa compliant tampering laws.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...5af7c09e88&mc=true&node=pt40.36.1054&rgn=div5

There is someone who works for the epa involved with amending laws when needs arise. I think there are two viable reasons to petition for amending the law, one being that timber felling safety can be a real concern when it comes to under powered saws, then...I'm assuming a performance enhanced saw can produce less overall emissions than a detuned equivalent when comparing overall board foot cut. My theory is based on what we've all seen when comparing two saws of the same model where the slower saw spends a couple minutes on one cut versus 30 seconds or less with the faster saw. Some very much needed test data would speak volumes here which I have absolutely no way of producing.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

If you think about it, it says you can't defeat what makes a saw epa compliant. But what about performance enhancement and other mods that are compliant to emission standards? How do they test that? Do they have a way of telling what year every saw was made?

 

[cgraham1]

If you think about it, it says you can't defeat what makes a saw epa compliant. But what about performance enhancement and other mods that are within epa? How do they test that? Do they have a way of telling what year every saw was made?

What about running more oil in your fuel? Why do you think all manufacturers specify 50:1? If you run 40:1 or (god forbid!) 32:1, certainly you are causing more pollution than is allowed by the epa... right?

 

[Mastermind]

Try not to let it get political please, but to me, this is an interesting subject.

 

[USMC615]

Interesting read!

 

[Gary Courtney]

I didn't see no line Gus!

 

[Mastermind]

I didn't see no line Gus!

One of my all time favorite movies.

We don't rent pigs.

 

[treesmith]

EPA is the reason the American 660 has the same hp as an Aussie ms170