Testing 8 9 10pin sprockets on Cannon belly bar, Cannon SBP, Tsumura

[Redbull661]

 

[Philbert]

Why would the 10 pin sprocket be slower on the Cannon bar?

I could see less torque than the 8, but that should have been consistent with the other 2 bars.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[RI Chevy]

Cool tests. Thanks for doing these for us.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

Why would the 10 pin sprocket be slower on the Cannon bar?

I could see less torque than the 8, but that should have been consistent with the other 2 bars.

Thanks.

Philbert

The ten pin can't do its job unless the kerf is cleaner and the belly bar has way better chip clearing ability.

 

[Philbert]

Still does not make sense to me. If one bar is proportionately faster that the others - OK. But the reverse relationship between sprocket size and cut speed does not make sense, compared to the other 2 bars.

Philbert

 

[Keith Gandy]

IMHO - the larger the gear/sprocket/wheel the less the torque. So the cannon SBP has a larger "gear"/tip, so it reduces the torque on the cutters coming back towards the saw. Relative, to a smaller "gear"/tip which is on the tsumura.

The other "gear" in the equation ie. the rim sprocket. Which again can also reduce torque by going bigger.

So big gear(10pin) + big gear (wide tip - cannon) = less torque than big gear (10pin) + smaller gear (narrow tip -tsumura).

smaller gear (9pin) + big gear (wide tip -cannon) = basically same torque as big gear (10pin) + smaller gear (narrow tip - tsumura)

that is the way I am seeing it...so far anyway. lol

Same principle as a dirtbike setup

 

[thomas1]

Except that the chain is not being used to transmit rotational force. The chain speed is determined by engine rpm and the rim sprocket, it doesn't matter what size the tip sprocket is, as far as a "gear ratio". If the chain is moving at 100ft/sec the tip sprocket size doesn't change that, other than the coefficient of drag.

 

[CR888]

Well Redbull your cookies look really uniform from lots of practice. On birthday occaisions you could divide the cake without shortchanging anyone. Thanks for posting all the stuffs you do.

 

[thomas1]

That it would still have nothing to do with the "gear ratio" affecting torque, that you proposed it did?

 

[spencerpaving]

The tip does not effect gear ratio...but a larger roller tip or sproket tip would reduce friction...it doesn't half to bend the chain as much and should free up power...on snowmobiles we would put 9 inch rear idler instead of stock 7 1/8 the track would roll easier on the big wheels....your test confirms my thoughts...my belly bar seems faster on my hotsaw over a conventional bar...the chain's spins easier on it...but I never actually timed it...only downfall is it is heavy

 

[thomas1]

Well I respectfully disagree. And I'm sorry, but I just don't have the time, to sit here and do a back n forth. I'm not making these results up.

I didn't say you were making results up. I said the way you jump to conclusions, of why you get the results you do, is laughable.

 

[mdavlee]

10 pin is faster on the belly bar since it's not rising up out of the groove as much like it does on the other bars.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

well this isn't the first wide nose vs narrow nose bar I've seen this on. Here is to jumping to conclusions...

btw this test isn't about proving wide vs narrow gearing whatever. I don't give a sh*t about that.

These bars have been the fastest out of all that I've owned. and I've owned a whole heck of a lot more then is shown in that picture. This also includes shorter bars. So the reason for the test was simply to see what would be the very fastest combo on my ported 661. That's it.

These results apply only to that saw. This is posted for entertainment of fellow members with CAD like myself and if people can ascertain something else from these results...great.

Now you gotta pick all that chit up.

 

[Redbull661]

Now you gotta pick all that chit up.

some chit is worth picking up

 

[Keith Gandy]

well this isn't the first wide nose vs narrow nose bar I've seen this on. Here is to jumping to conclusions...

btw this test isn't about proving wide vs narrow gearing whatever. I don't give a sh*t about that.

These bars have been the fastest out of all that I've owned. and I've owned a whole heck of a lot more then is shown in that picture. This also includes shorter bars. So the reason for the test was simply to see what would be the very fastest combo on my ported 661. That's it.

These results apply only to that saw. This is posted for entertainment of fellow members with CAD like myself and if people can ascertain something else from these results...great.

I still love my 28 Cannon Superbar Plus in 404 widenose

 

[thomas1]

$10k to figure out less friction is better? Way to go.

 

[Redbull661]

$10k to figure out less friction is better? Way to go.

damn dude. you sure are a fckin prick !

 

[Brush Ape]

T1, you aren't supposed to go full retard.

 

[Philbert]

. . .btw this test isn't about proving wide vs narrow gearing whatever. . . . So the reason for the test was simply to see what would be the very fastest combo on my ported 661. That's it.

We appreciate you posting all of this - as saw geeks, we are just trying to understand 'why', and how it might apply to other saw combinations.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[Deets066]

The tip does not effect gear ratio...but a larger roller tip or sproket tip would reduce friction...it doesn't half to bend the chain as much and should free up power...on snowmobiles we would put 9 inch rear idler instead of stock 7 1/8 the track would roll easier on the big wheels....your test confirms my thoughts...my belly bar seems faster on my hotsaw over a conventional bar...the chain's spins easier on it...but I never actually timed it...only downfall is it is heavy

Exactly, tip has nothing to do with gear ratio.