Rakers?

[davidwyby]

Could youexplain why?

To me a cross-cut is a cross-cut. There's more silicon near the base (the mineral that helps give trees strength) and depending on stresses the tree endured the grain may be knotted up, but the cut is the same (to me) other than having to support the saw properly and watch for unexpected pinching.

Noodling/milling (rip cutting) is of course different as the cutters are removing material in the direction of the grain instead of across it and doing so is more "peeling" the wood than "severing" the wood.

It's more about the handling and operator/saw mechanics. With the saw weight pushing down bucking, you'd think the saw would get stuck more, but it's the opposite. It's easier to modulate the feed rate. Get it wound up and let it rip all the way through. The weight helps feed the saw and not much dogging is required (with an aggressive chain).

When felling, there is more stopping and starting(this is the bulk of the issue), awkward positions (dogging in too hard), and chips do no clean out as well either. No weight of the saw to help feed, so one must dog in, often awkwardly and may stall the clutch. Also, with too much hook, one must pull the chain away from the wood before letting off the throttle, or the chain will get stuck and not want to start up again.

Not the best example, but IIRC, this chain was a bit aggressive. Note a little stalling sound when felling but cuts like butter bucking.

 

[davidwyby]

My crewboss sharpens his semi-chisel 3/8" chains with a 1/4" file from the start to reduce the hook and gain longevity for the materials we work in.

As the cutter wears, you can grind a flat down one side of the 1/4" file to lower it and make it automatically set the hook height...like hexa.

 

[HumBurner]

Filing from inside the tooth outward (pushing the file toward the cutting edge) creates a sharp edge. Filing inward (pushing the file from the cutting edge inward toward the underside of the cutter) pulls the cutter in toward the file face, which is bumpy, which creates vibration (catch on the file face-and-release-and-catch), which creates a rough rounded cutter edge. It may be "sharp" but it is not as sharp as it could be. If you were to use a fine-grit diamond file the effect would be less noticeable, but similar. If filing correctly a burr is created when sharpening a worn (rounded, non-sharp) cutter, then the burr breaks off when the cutter is sharp leaving a crisp razor-sharp edge (potentially with less material removal). An added bonus is the metal filings are pushed outside of the bar instead of deposited between chain links.

The topic was depth gauges though, not about filing teeth/cutters.....


Edit: and I've never had the chain lift off the bar from filing a depth gauge, so I'm completely lost as to what you're mentioning.

 

[Ketchup]

Could youexplain why?

To me a cross-cut is a cross-cut. There's more silicon near the base (the mineral that helps give trees strength) and depending on stresses the tree endured the grain may be knotted up, but the cut is the same (to me) other than having to support the saw properly and watch for unexpected pinching.

Noodling/milling (rip cutting) is of course different as the cutters are removing material in the direction of the grain instead of across it and doing so is more "peeling" the wood than "severing" the wood.

In theory, a milling cut is perpendicular to the grain like a block plane. A cross cut is also perpendicular, but on a different axis. A noodling cut is parallel to the grain.
Milling cuts are much harder for the chain to cut because the butt grain compacts. Cross cuts are easiest and what most saw chain is designed for. In a noodling cut the teeth dig deeper and also create longer, higher friction chips that are harder to clear.

When cross-cutting in the root flare grain direction changes from perpendicular to diagonal and can be more similar to a milling or noodling cut.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

@davidwyby : Awesome video! That tree was out to get the sawyer! Sheesh.
Thanks for posting it, glad the guy came out 100%.

 

[davidwyby]

@davidwyby : Awesome video! That tree was out to get they sawyer! Sheesh.
Thanks for posting it, glad the guy came out 100%.

just for clarity, that's me...

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

just for clarity, that's me...

Did you fly in from California for the Wisconsin Get-Together?

 

[davidwyby]

Did you fly in from California for the Wisconsin Get-Together?

Yep

I’m having one in Feb for y’all to fly down to

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Did you fly in from California for the Wisconsin Get-Together?

Yep

Weirdo.

 

[BlueBeast]

Filing from inside the tooth outward (pushing the file toward the cutting edge) creates a sharp edge. Filing inward (pushing the file from the cutting edge inward toward the underside of the cutter) pulls the cutter in toward the file face, which is bumpy, which creates vibration (catch on the file face-and-release-and-catch), which creates a rough rounded cutter edge. It may be "sharp" but it is not as sharp as it could be. If you were to use a fine-grit diamond file the effect would be less noticeable, but similar. If filing correctly a burr is created when sharpening a worn (rounded, non-sharp) cutter, then the burr breaks off when the cutter is sharp leaving a crisp razor-sharp edge (potentially with less material removal). An added bonus is the metal filings are pushed outside of the bar instead of deposited between chain links.


Filing across a depth gauge (perpendicular to the line of travel, at 90°) causes the edge of the depth gauge to catch on the file face. Filing toward the saw head causes the depth gauge to lift and vibrate against the file which is counter-productive. Filing toward the bar nose ("on an angle" because the cutters are in the way to file exactly toward the bar nose at 0°) puts tension on the chain sprocket and pulls the chain taught, reducing vibration and makes a much smoother cut. Chain tension is maintained as the chain is resting on the bar flat. Filing toward the powerhead can cause the chain to vibrate because the slack created by gravity pulling the chain away from the bar can cause the chain to pull before enough tension is created to pull against the powerhead sprocket, causing the depth gauge to catch on the file face, release, gravity pull the chain back, and the process to repeat.


The original question I was intending to answer is, "By the way, has anyone ever been in the woods filing rakers and called up a turkey?" To me that implies the sound created by filing (file chatter), not chatter of the chain going through wood with the powerhead running as that would not be a sound that attracts turkeys in my experience.

That's what was happening. I just did a quick field sharpen with it still in the mill, just a couple of rips left. I usually go at them the "correct" way. I did notice changing the angle and pressure on the file did stop the squeeks. Getting in a hurry and just trying get to the end causes me to bear down and not pay attention to my angle sometimes.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

That's what was happening. I just did a quick field sharpen with it still in the mill, just a couple of rips left. I usually go at them the "correct" way. I did notice changing the angle and pressure on the file did stop the squeeks. Getting in a hurry and just trying get to the end causes me to bear down and not pay attention to my angle sometimes.

Glad you've got it sorted. Rushing almost always does me in, I've learned to take the time to do the job right. (There's plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead.)

Joking aside, the Wisconsin Get-Together was awesome and a great learning experience. It was great hanging out with everyone, though pretty overwhelming as I usually saw by myself and this was the first GTG I attended. Everyone was incredible, which is possibly why @davidwyby flew in from California. (glad you could make it, by the way)

 

[Fleethirte]

I just ran into this thread, I have never filed my rakers….. looks like I need to get busy

 

[Squareground3691]

I just ran into this thread, I have never filed my rakers….. looks like I need to get busy

There as critical as a razor sharp chain, for overall cutting performance.

 

[Fleethirte]

I’m excited to file them now!!

 

[Chainmale]

I’m excited to file them now!!

You'll need a depth gauge to get them set to the right height.

 

[ManiacalMark]

0.035” give or take, kill tress every day, stock height is okay I guess, feels like it won’t self feed as well. 40 and over your elbows will be shot by the end of the day.

 

[Loony661]

0.035” give or take, kill tress every day, stock height is okay I guess, feels like it won’t self feed as well. 40 and over your elbows will be shot by the end of the day.

This.

 

[Fleethirte]

I like this concept of self feed…. How about a quick buzz on the raker with the angle grinder

 

[pbillyi69]

no

 

[pbillyi69]

get a new quality flat file from a saw shop