Question for Loggers and Timber Fallers

[Thumper88]

How did you get into the profession? Is there a way for someone to get started in it without being an 18 year old kid who grew up in it? I ask because Ive dreamed of falling big timber on the west coast for a long time now. Im 33, have a wife and two kids, and work a well paying job at a boat plant while doing tree work on the side. I can cut and fall for tree work but I have zero experience doing production type falling. Ive got all my equipment, saws, caulks, hard hat, fallers belt, etc. Are there gigs that pay by the hour, is it all contract work, is it a mix of both? Can you start as an apprentice faller or does everyone start in rigging and work their way to faller? What is the pay like? I dont make a fortune now, but it would be hard to take a major pay cut and start over. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer any of the above.

 

[Funky sawman]

It's gonna be real hard to start with any logging show as a green feller. Most have to work up through the ranks such as starting as a choker setter, or a haywire winder lol.
Where are you trying to work out of? It's real tough to get a felling job here in North Idaho even for seasoned guys. Most of the loggers are using bunchers now.
I was lucky and my first logging job put me into a learn or die felling situation, I would not recommend that way of starting. I've actually went to running skidder, loader, processor and landing saw later in life. I have never hooked under a yarder though.

 

[Funky sawman]

Well you gots some good felling saws in yer signature. I hope it works out fur ya. I know of a lot of timber fellers currently looking for work, most of them are busy on the summer fires cutten trees.

 

[Funky sawman]

A big thing that loggers look for now in a potential employee is versatility. When I was a "common" logger, any day of the week I could be felling timber, wrenching on the skidders, running processor, loading logs, slashing reprod, sawing landing with chainsaw, or all in the same day!

 

[Funky sawman]

Sorry I have alot to say about this lol. Lots of random thoughts. I did work as a contract feller for some time, had my own broadform liability insurance, bonded all that crap. I filled in when needed, and mostly got called to cut on state timber sales that had oversize timber and or steep ground that a buncher couldn't do. Fun stuff but not a reliable pay check for me unfortunately. I'm a contract timber thinner now which the guy I contract for is contracting from the state. Yea I get the short end of the stick with pay being I'm at the end of the food line.

 

[davidwyby]

@Thumper88 I hate to say it but I think we are as close as we’re gonna get to that dream.

 

[Woodslasher]

@Thumper88 I hate to say it but I think we are as close as we’re gonna get to that dream.

Yeah, all of the loggers I know are saying that timber fallers are a dying breed. Processors, feller bunchers, etc do the job quicker and probably safer to boot. Fire lines, heli-logging, and USFS guys who are sent out to fell hazard trees (usually in burn sites) are the last few spots I know of where fallers still exist in the wild in any real numbers. I thought doing logging would be fun, but all the loggers I know have said the sawing part is becoming obsolete. I'd listen to Funky Sawman instead of someone like me who isn't in the field, but that's just my NorCal take based on what pro's have told me.

If you're really interested in West Coast tree work I'd check out Mountain Enterprises, in the past few years they went from a firewood company to one of the major PG&E contract holders in the NorCal region, they're frickin' rolling in $ and still expanding from what I've heard.

 

[Funky sawman]

Spot on @Woodslasher

 

[Dieselshawn]

It sure would be fun to be a tree feller, run skidders etc.

I know of many friends that are professional loggers with their own companies and I haul their equipment from site to site sometimes.

It sure is hard work and weather dependant.

Lots of respect to those guys.

 

[Int1968]

Doubtful that you’ll be productive enough to command a decent wage and you’ll need years of training and experience. Works Safe BC has a lot of info about the trade online. I’m not sure about the USA maybe send some emails out Reg Cotes ? Has some insightful you tube videos.

I work in Ontario Canada for a utility and am a licensed utility arborist, done and do side tree work. Becoming a faller would be a whole new trade/skill set.

look up the newer high angle fellerbunchers it’s pretty crazy the hills that they can work on. I think the demand is getting less and less, more specialized and camp work.

if it’s a dream of yours I encourage you to follow it.

 

[Funky sawman]

Doubtful that you’ll be productive enough to command a decent wage and you’ll need years of training and experience. Works Safe BC has a lot of info about the trade online. I’m not sure about the USA maybe send some emails out Reg Cotes ? Has some insightful you tube videos.

I work in Ontario Canada for a utility and am a licensed utility arborist, done and do side tree work. Becoming a faller would be a whole new trade/skill set.

look up the newer high angle fellerbunchers it’s pretty crazy the hills that they can work on. I think the demand is getting less and less, more specialized and camp work.

if it’s a dream of yours I encourage you to follow it.

I actually got called out on a felling job last fall that was using one of the new highly capable bunchers. It was doing great until it got into Rocky ground, which most of N Idaho is rock lol. Only way they could have kept going is with the tether method

 

[jacob j.]

If I were you Thumper, I'd probably just stick with what you have going on now. Making a living out here as a faller is a tough, tough business for anyone, but even more so for a
guy just starting out. If you really want to do it, the best way to start is with one of the bigger falling contractors - these are long-time guys that run a stable of fallers that they send
out to loggers and big fires. They'll start you and pay you a trainee wage for the first few months - you'll get to cut a lot of junk and you'll get garbage strips that no one else wants
because you're the new guy. But it's a way in. Like Forrest posted above - a lot of loggers are going to machines now and they occasionally need a hand faller to cut the oversize or
the stuff that's on steep ground that the machine can't handle.

Cutting on the fires is a different scenario - it's primarily cutting fire-weakened trees or residual snags in the fire area. You won't be able to get on doing that until you have a few
years experience in the west. Most outfits here don't consider a guy a "journeyman" faller until they have at least five years experience. Five years is a good yard stick because in
that time you'll have encountered a lot of tricky and difficult situations that require real problem-solving skills.

Another option also (as mentioned above) is to get on with an outfit and work the rigging and then move your way up to falling for that outfit. A lot of outfits like it that way because
guys prove themselves on the rigging and show that they can hang with hard work.

I got into it primarily through taking chainsaw training in a forestry class when I was in high school, which led to a temporary job running saw for a trails crew, which in turn then led to a fire fighting job. I had swamping experience from working with my dad and uncle who were long-time fallers with good reputations. That helped me break into the industry. Then I spent 26-odd years doing different work in the woods.

 

[Funky sawman]

About every other year I contract out to a local logger to fell an OSR (overstory removal) job. This type of work requires more hiking than sawing. It usually takes place in a previously logged unit that the state left nice seed trees behind. These trees have like 150 to 200 foot spacing and are Western larch and ponderosa pine. The reprod from the seed trees is 20 foot tall or so, and the state will set up a timber sale dubbed OSR.
Being that the trees have great spacing, it's not economical to walk a buncher all over such a sale to pluck trees. That's where a hand feller comes in and typically they pay me by the tree, last time, I got paid 4.50 per tree and the timber was all bigger than 22 inch DBH. Any giving day I would average about 45 to 50 trees in 6 hrs. As long as I kept a swinging grapple skidder pulling wood, the company was happy. I wish all jobs had a laid back attitude like that, but it's seems like most companies want you to work yerself into the dirt!

 

[jmester]

Are there loggers in your local area now that you could cut for?

Going and working for a tree service out west maybe a better option to not take a pay cut plus it will help with gaining experience. Doors may open up better if you are in the area.

Maybe pose your question over on tree buzz.

Just trying to throw some ideas out there to help.

 

[davidwyby]

There are some PNW logging groups on fb too.

 

[jacob j.]

There are some PNW logging groups on fb too.

I have contacts for the guys that are running larger stables of fallers and faller modules and I'll give those to people that are serious about getting into it.

Like I say, there's ways in but it's not easy breaking in.

I recommend that anyone looking to get into western falling as a career should be working out and getting into top physical shape if they aren't already.

 

[Infinitejest]

Around here, nobody wants to train a faller. There's not enough money in logging to invest the time/money into a guy to get him to the point of being a a turn key faller.
The new yarders and carriages are no joke either, you can't have an "off" day.

The other side of it is your home life, or lack thereof. My wife is a Saint for putting up with all the time I've been away and me being too tired/busy getting everything in order for the next week to want to do anything fun when I am home.

All that said, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't change anything...

Wife, two kids, good job....why mess with a good thing?

 

[Skeans1]

Mechanically I cut 35 degrees as long as I don’t break loose untethered, the guys tethering have killed hand fallers for the most part. I’ve watched those guys on the lines and there’s not much they can’t touch anymore unless it’s a cliff.

I actually got called out on a felling job last fall that was using one of the new highly capable bunchers. It was doing great until it got into Rocky ground, which most of N Idaho is rock lol. Only way they could have kept going is with the tether method

I know a few companies out here have wheel harvesters just for those situations it’s easier to use on rock even on steep ground then a track machine plus they tether them.

 

[Funky sawman]

Mechanically I cut 35 degrees as long as I don’t break loose untethered, the guys tethering have killed hand fallers for the most part. I’ve watched those guys on the lines and there’s not much they can’t touch anymore unless it’s a cliff.

I know a few companies out here have wheel harvesters just for those situations it’s easier to use on rock even on steep ground then a track machine plus they tether them.

Alot of spots up in priest lake area don't have roads at the top of the unit. It's everything a cat 527 or 648 JD can do just to back up the skid trails to get the individual sticks. Pushing 60 percent grade, yea that's yarder territory, but not for these crazy north idahoans.
Yea, no way to tether when a machine can't hardly get to the top

 

[Tugg]

All this stuff is getting to be the same. Farming, logging, and excavation. If you have the equipment and it is financed, which it almost has to be because it is so expensive. It has to be productive. Surprised they don’t start putting the locks on the outside, to keep butts in seats.