Pretty sure I broke the coil, about to attempt a "plug&play" swap, have a Q on my diagnostics though

[Cerberus]

Smokey that's very similar to how I approach it but not a full 24hrs!

So....IT RAN!!!! TWICE!!! In fact I know I could go out and do it a 3rd time if I wanted but I got the footage necessary on attempt #1, was just trying to film so you guys could hear the "wanna start" behavior -- thought that may be enough -- but it goes and fully starts-up and runs like 10sec before conking-out, kinda 'squeeling' metal-on-metal when it dies, sorry the link is so long I put it on youtube as well but that is still "as Premiere" this actually just lets you watch video (plz lemme know if video isn't perfect!)
((Note: ~1/3rd of the way into this 3min clip is when I pull the cord, getting successful Choked turn-over and then successful On position startup of unit, it runs then dies:
https://www.tiktok.com/@joescissorh...r_device=pc&sender_web_id=7015044373184267782

 

[Cerberus]

That's flywheel-keyway not mating isn't it? But not to the starter, to the shaft itself I'm guessing? I know a good bit of that area is "good to upgrade to OEM" anyways, thankfully....hope the minimal runtime from these 2 startups didn't do any further damage!

 

[Cerberus]

[Ninja-Update: I just did a subsequent trial to the video, on the idea "maybe it is the carb somehow" so I turned-in Idle a bit more and turned-out Low by like 1/8th barely, and got 16seconds of run-time...but this thing just clean-died mid-cut, carbs don't change settings like that LOL this can't be carb settings!]


Alright this is how I wanted to share it!!

The ^ moment where I begin startup procedure (only to find it actually starts!), obviously you can scroll to any moment but that's a lot cleaner!!

I'm afraid to keep messing with it, I do not think it's the carb or anything I think there's something not mating / interfacing properly at the flywheel (keyway(s) as others have mentioned) so don't wanna risk shearing things further & possibly needing to buy more parts than already necessary!

[edited-in: unless that squeel is the clutch drum, both rim-drive *and* OEM Stihl sprockets / this clutch is still new to me...gonna do another test w/ clutch-cover on and chainbrake holding that thing in place, see if noise is the same!]

 

[Nutball]

Sounded like the low speed was too lean. Revving it right after startup may help get the fuel flowing as the low speed may not really need adjusting once warmed up. I usually mess with the choke after it first starts running to manually choke it however much it needs to keep going until warmed up a little.

The squeak could have been the clutch somehow, like a bad bearing, or where the hub of the bell rubs the hub of the clutch. A 194t at work squeaked today, and I've seen it before. On the 194t, the clutch bell hub eventually wears a polished perfectly fitting groove into the clutch shoe holder hub and makes a squeaking sound.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Pull the flywheel off and end the mystery.

 

[Cerberus]

Sounded like the low speed was too lean. Revving it right after startup may help get the fuel flowing as the low speed may not really need adjusting once warmed up. I usually mess with the choke after it first starts running to manually choke it however much it needs to keep going until warmed up a little.

The squeak could have been the clutch somehow, like a bad bearing, or where the hub of the bell rubs the hub of the clutch. A 194t at work squeaked today, and I've seen it before. On the 194t, the clutch bell hub eventually wears a polished perfectly fitting groove into the clutch shoe holder hub and makes a squeaking sound.

Didn't even consider Re no-bar, was just blindly copying what I'd seen others do (youtube/etc) without thinking it through, will not do that again!!

All tuning aside, I'm still just confused AF here because the saw was great on "test day", then it was a champ for nearly an hour of use on first work-day, it dies mid-cut, but then....subtle carb-tweaks are the fix? I literally only moved L about 1/5th or 1/4th CCW, and Idle turned-inwards about the same, if nothing else I suspect that is just overcompensating for a problem elsewhere.

Figured I'd "figure-out the problem once I began real-cutting", put the top-cover back on, actually tensioned the chain that was already on it from its prior test, and - with tensioned chain - would not start!

Gonna go outside and do today's first try, I thought I'd have it at a mechanic's right now, did not realize they were mostly banker's hours so gotta wait til Mon (but wanna fix this myself....)

 

[Cerberus]

Pull the flywheel off and end the mystery.

ROFL my feelings exactly!! But feel incompetent to do so, IE like the keyways will fall-out and get lost, or that - once I un-seat that nut - that it's now "out of alignment".....I'm not sure if I've ever had to remove a flywheel!

At this point though, if my testing (ie the next 5min!) does not yield immediate success, I'll have that flywheel off & pictures up because as-mentioned even though it started it has yet to give me "a big fight" for the starter-rope, so *something* beyond a small carb-tweak is still awry!

 

[Jason628]

Set it up on a clean workspace so if the key comes out you don't lose it. Pretty easy to pop a flywheel off if you have a puller. Pull the plug and put the piston near TDC and put some rope down the cylinder so you can remove the nut or just use an impact. I have spare keys(they are cheap) in case I lose one. The key is what aligns the flywheel. It will not be out of alignment as long as you have the key in place when it goes back together. Unless your key has been modded to advance timing... then you just hold the flywheel counterclockwise when you tighten the nut back down.

 

[Mastermind]

it was a champ for nearly an hour

Remember when I said that these were Chinese junk?

 

[Jason628]

Remember when I said that these were Chinese junk?

Hey, if stihl sold a box of parts so you could build your own saw I'd be down to buy them. For the hobbiest that likes to tinker with junk I think they are pretty cool. If I was still working in the tree business I would want the real deal because, it makes money and is reliable.
How's the 881 project coming along? I have a friend who has one on order and wants to "modify" it when he gets it. I'm like why!? It's a good saw out of the box and a 120cc monster! It's way overkill for the type of cutting he does... I think he will change his mind about modding it once he actually runs it.

 

[Mastermind]

Hey, if stihl sold a box of parts so you could build your own saw I'd be down to buy them. For the hobbiest that likes to tinker with junk I think they are pretty cool. If I was still working in the tree business I would want the real deal because, it makes money and is reliable.
How's the 881 project coming along? I have a friend who has one on order and wants to "modify" it when he gets it. I'm like why!? It's a good saw out of the box and a 120cc monster! It's way overkill for the type of cutting he does... I think he will change his mind about modding it once he actually runs it.

I'm still dialing in my recipe. Coming along good though.

 

[Woodslasher]

Hey, if stihl sold a box of parts so you could build your own saw I'd be down to buy them.

That’s what the back room/junk pile is for, I got 85% of a 461 for $125 outta one place and a buddy either paid something like $75 or was given a seized 462 outta another place.

 

[Cerberus]

I feel like I should've thought of this but it was ONLY the carb-screws it seems...... The only reason I even qualify that with "it seems" is because the initial "very very high resistance when starting" has not returned, it starts like you'd expect an unmodified 92cc to start (in this video I start it, squatting, with it in-wood, with my left-hand -- initially you would have to be standing, put a real concerted focused effort, and still miss it more often than not, tearing your hand up-- I realized that I never put a spark-arrester on and am now wondering if I didn't get something in the muffler! Will be inspecting it before further use to be sure but I didn't just have this running proper I did a couple tests then made this video after I let it cool, I did another slight adjustment after and let it cool again and just re-started, it was quick to do a Choked turn-over and a 2-pull, no-fighting startup on On immediately after!

Wish I could duplicate the force required on that rope before the saw "went down", I kept thinking "it is unnatural/wrong" and now, with it starting & working despite not needing 1/10th the force to start it up, I cannot help but think I got something in that muffler and, during startup when it's a low-speed-syringe, that it was kicking-around altering backpressure!

Cannot even explained how stoked I am right now, tempered only by the fact that I cannot re-produce the "jerky, rapidly-increased-force" required for starting before, had never experienced it before and cannot duplicate it now...but it runs a champ even though it has a dull chain on it!

Remember when I said that these were Chinese junk?

I remember you being very professional in your disclaimers on this matter and, in-addition, couldn't help but notice you seemed especially apprehensive (to put it lightly) at the entire concept of a cottage-industry that's based on explicit IP-theft!
Cannot say "junk" though, certainly not in regards to this particular unit you built that's all upgraded, I mean damn I am left needing to upgrade like 2 inconsequential items (gas cap oooh!) and, from there, it's as-needed, as-things-break which I just don't suspect will be much problem. We'll see, I learned about wiggly carb-screws - fair - not much of a biggie though, am not even gonna run it again til I've gotten & applied & cured an appropriate thread-sealant (would LOVE to know what you used, because when I was dissembling it, more than once I had to wrestle a screw out, you secured screws better than any OEM I'd ever dissembled, would really like knowing what you used! And am presuming prep is simply 'be sure it's clean' right?

Will have my thread-locking solution(s) and have all the parts I touched re-locked, and will need to come up with a chunk of rubber or something to pin those screws in-place, between the screws & the rubber screw-guard in the casing it should be easy to 'wedge' something to prevent ANY movement of those needles (I have never touched the H needle, but the L needle moved so smoothly that, before realizing its movement was the fault, I had thought to myself "what nice, fine tooling" lol)
But yeah I def remember you making both a professional disclaimer Re the nature &reliability of kits, and also the general ethical issue of an industry built on such blatant IP-theft!!

Cannot even see this thing as "meh" let alone junk, it still needs a handful of parts - after you went and swapped-up all the most critical stuff, which again I will never be

 

[Cerberus]

I have a friend who has one on order and wants to "modify" it when he gets it. I'm like why!?

LOL!!

I can remember, on day 1 like 10min into usage, thinking "heh, this is the 1st time I have zero desire to make it faster/different/anything"!!

Would be curious just how much weaker an average clone is, I LOVE my zenoah g2500 clone it's nearly 3yrs old, still a go-to saw for me (that platform - g2500 - is just awesome though, wish more top-handles had the same bar//handle orientation, that steep upward bar-angle, so great on small top-handles!)

 

[Jason628]

Maybe... you could find a tougher spring or place a washer or two on the low speed needle to add more tension to keep it from moving.

I've built three of these saws. First one I sold and it busted the cylinder screws... which was an odd failure. I told dude to bring it back and I'd fix it and he declined and said he would fix it himself. Haven't heard anything else from dude. Second one has a pop up and advanced timing. Reshaped and beveled the ports. Gave it a full wrap handle and a 30" bar. Gave it to my dad for his birthday. No issues yet. #3 is all farmertec and have only 3 tanks ran through it. Cylinder screw hole in case was untapped. Chain tensioner pocket in case needed work on every one (bad casting) Decomp gummed up really quick but, wd40 fixed it. Seemed to pop really easily so switched with a stihl decomp but, it does the same thing. No real issues yet. She starts easy and makes decent power. Might go cut some more tomorrow if it isn't raining.