Preparing to port first saw - which one, and what method?

[jacktheripper]

Hey everyone,

I have been around the forum almost daily for the last year, and I have been fixing, building, and restoring saws for longer. I have done a number of ground-up builds, small performance mods (muff mods, timing advances, base gasket deletes, carb mods, air filter mods, etc.). I have had a blast doing these stock-mod builds, but I am envious of the skill that many here have when it comes to port work. I initially wasn't too interested in ported saws, but an 034s from @drf256 changed my mind on that.

I have been acquiring knowledge and tools for porting my first saw, and I think I'm at the point where I'd like to try it. I don't have access to a lathe or machining tools, nor do I have a right angle grinder, so my first port job will likely be a pretty simple one.

I have this grinder, a full selection of double cut burrs, diamond balls, polishing mandrels, etc. I have a timing wheel on a drill chuck as well.

I have a few good stock candidates for porting: Husky 266 and 272, Stihl 024 and 038m. I have additional OEM cylinders for the 266, the 024, and the 038M in case I totally mess up.

Which should I start with first, and what numbers/shapes/etc should I be working with?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Woodwackr]

Hey everyone,

I have been around the forum almost daily for the last year, and I have been fixing, building, and restoring saws for longer. I have done a number of ground-up builds, small performance mods (muff mods, timing advances, base gasket deletes, carb mods, air filter mods, etc.). I have had a blast doing these stock-mod builds, but I am envious of the skill that many here have when it comes to port work. I initially wasn't too interested in ported saws, but an 034s from @drf256 changed my mind on that.

I have been acquiring knowledge and tools for porting my first saw, and I think I'm at the point where I'd like to try it. I don't have access to a lathe or machining tools, nor do I have a right angle grinder, so my first port job will likely be a pretty simple one.

I have this grinder, a full selection of double cut burrs, diamond balls, polishing mandrels, etc. I have a timing wheel on a drill chuck as well.

I have a few good stock candidates for porting: Husky 266 and 272, Stihl 024 and 038m. I have additional OEM cylinders for the 266, the 024, and the 038M in case I totally mess up.

Which should I start with first, and what numbers/shapes/etc should I be working with?

Thanks for the help.

I believe, without a lathe the timing wheel won't really make much difference. You won't be adjusting that.
Pic a saw that you don't really care about or, at least a cylinder. might start with one of those 036 cylinders I sent you...one that is scored too much to be usable.

 

[jacktheripper]

I believe, without a lathe the timing wheel won't really make much difference. You won't be adjusting that.
Pic a saw that you don't really care about or, at least a cylinder. might start with one of those 036 cylinders I sent you...one that is scored too much to be usable.

I would think that I could definitely use a timing wheel to check stock port timing, and adjust intake/exhaust duration if recommended. I might be able to get into the transfers with a ball hone at an angle on the bigger bore cylinders (038m and 272). I have a ported 034s, but no longer have a stock 036, so I'd rather not mess with porting the 036 jugs at the moment. I figured somebody might chime in and recommend one of these saws as being easier to do, or more responsive to a light port job than others.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Whether you cut the base pr squish, you will definitely want/need the degree wheel so you know where the port timing is, and where to go and end up. It's essential, without it your just blindly guessing.

I'd do the biggest bore cylinder you have.

Or the 038 if you if you plan to try doing the transfers. You can always stack up cutting disks to grind the upper transfers since you don't have the angle tool. The stacked cutting wheels work, but a bigger bore and dual transfers make it simpler.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

I have ported six saws. I exclusively do what a lot of guys call a "woods port" which means you're deleting the base gasket and cutting the ports for better airflow and timing numbers. You leave the additional power gains on the table that would come from using a lathe to cut the base and squish band, but do still get substantial gains over stock.

The first saw I ported was an 044 and I would definitely recommend that size of saw. The second one was a 661, and it was much easier given the larger cylinder size. Smaller engines require smaller amounts of material to be removed in a tighter space.

You absolutely need to spend $30 on a timing wheel and drill chuck, so that you can time the saw and lay out exactly how much material to remove.

I'd suggest doing the 266 first; it's a big enough saw to be easier to work on, and you have a spare cylinder if you mess the first one up.

 

[Woodwackr]

I have ported six saws. I exclusively do what a lot of guys call a "woods port" which means you're deleting the base gasket and cutting the ports for better airflow and timing numbers. You leave the additional power gains on the table that would come from using a lathe to cut the base and squish band, but do still get substantial gains over stock.

The first saw I ported was an 044 and I would definitely recommend that size of saw. The second one was a 661, and it was much easier given the larger cylinder size. Smaller engines require smaller amounts of material to be removed in a tighter space.

You absolutely need to spend $30 on a timing wheel and drill chuck, so that you can time the saw and lay out exactly how much material to remove.

I'd suggest doing the 266 first; it's a big enough saw to be easier to work on, and you have a spare cylinder if you mess the first one up.

How do you alter timing without machine work?

 

[Sauen]

How do you alter timing without machine work?

You can still grind the intake lower and exhaust and transfers higher

 

[MemphisMechanic]

How do you alter timing without machine work?

As has been already said, by raising / lowering the ports after deleting the base gasket. Assuming you still have sufficient squish, of course.

In some saws it leaves quite a bit of power on the table. On some saws it comes quite a bit closer to a fully machined build.

 

[Sloughfoot]

Hey everyone,

I have been around the forum almost daily for the last year, and I have been fixing, building, and restoring saws for longer. I have done a number of ground-up builds, small performance mods (muff mods, timing advances, base gasket deletes, carb mods, air filter mods, etc.). I have had a blast doing these stock-mod builds, but I am envious of the skill that many here have when it comes to port work. I initially wasn't too interested in ported saws, but an 034s from @drf256 changed my mind on that.

I have been acquiring knowledge and tools for porting my first saw, and I think I'm at the point where I'd like to try it. I don't have access to a lathe or machining tools, nor do I have a right angle grinder, so my first port job will likely be a pretty simple one.

I have this grinder, a full selection of double cut burrs, diamond balls, polishing mandrels, etc. I have a timing wheel on a drill chuck as well.

I have a few good stock candidates for porting: Husky 266 and 272, Stihl 024 and 038m. I have additional OEM cylinders for the 266, the 024, and the 038M in case I totally mess up.

Which should I start with first, and what numbers/shapes/etc should I be working with?

Thanks for the help.

I saw these pneumatic grinders after I'd gotten my first Foredom. Is it working well for you?

 

[amateurarborist]

Agreed with others. Timing wheel is absolutely necessary. Pick whichever saw has the biggest diameter piston. Start by figuring out the stock timing numbers.

Then watch Tinman's basic saw porting videos on YouTube before doing anything. I've had great luck with his method. It will help you understand why everyone is giving the advice they are, and help you decide on your timing numbers. Be prepared to disassemble and reassemble a few times. Cut a little, reassemble and check timing, repeat. It's easy to go too far. Thousands of an inch of material removed are degrees of timing.

Delete base gasket, use motoseal instead. Raise exhaust roof a few degrees, lower intake floor a few. Maybe touch the transfers a little, but maintain max blowdown (yields torque). Make sure that you don't go enormous on intake/exhaust, because you would need a bigger carb, but ovalize the intake and exhaust by widening them. Make sure they still have a conical and not flat top and bottom or you will hang a ring and nuke the top end. Similarly, make sure to champfer and polish their edges a little. Polish the exhaust, leave the intake rough. Gut the muffler and make the exit about 60-70% the volume of the exhaust port on the head. You will notice significant gains.

 

[Stump Shot]

I have this grinder, a full selection of double cut burrs, diamond balls, polishing mandrels, etc. I have a timing wheel on a drill chuck as well.

I have a few good stock candidates for porting: Husky 266 and 272, Stihl 024 and 038m. I have additional OEM cylinders for the 266, the 024, and the 038M in case I totally mess up.

Which should I start with first, and what numbers/shapes/etc should I be working with?

Thanks for the help.

The 266 will be the easiest, it needs the exhaust port worked over mostly, squish is good usually as well as timing and compression.

 

[jacktheripper]

It sounds like I need to do this 266 then. I actually have three - One nice stock runner, and two very nice project saws that will be ground-up restorations. I think I should just do a ground-up build and document it on here. I have watched some of Tinman's videos, but I am skeptical of taking anything of his as truth. Is there a good 266 porting thread, or recipe that somebody can point me to?

 

[Stump Shot]

It sounds like I need to do this 266 then. I actually have three - One nice stock runner, and two very nice project saws that will be ground-up restorations. I think I should just do a ground-up build and document it on here. I have watched some of Tinman's videos, but I am skeptical of taking anything of his as truth. Is there a good 266 porting thread, or recipe that somebody can point me to?

Look up Scott Kunz on YouTube and look for his how to video series on porting chainsaws, there's none better.
Start your build thread and let us know your numbers and capability's and we can try and work up a plan for you. Just trying to inject someone's numbers in doesn't necessarily work without all the other details that they have done, like machining etc..

 

[full chizel]

I just use a belt sander and hoof rasp.

 

[MR_T]

I just use a belt sander and hoof rasp.

belt sander?? For what?

 

[MG porting]

Hey everyone,

I have been around the forum almost daily for the last year, and I have been fixing, building, and restoring saws for longer. I have done a number of ground-up builds, small performance mods (muff mods, timing advances, base gasket deletes, carb mods, air filter mods, etc.). I have had a blast doing these stock-mod builds, but I am envious of the skill that many here have when it comes to port work. I initially wasn't too interested in ported saws, but an 034s from @drf256 changed my mind on that.

I have been acquiring knowledge and tools for porting my first saw, and I think I'm at the point where I'd like to try it. I don't have access to a lathe or machining tools, nor do I have a right angle grinder, so my first port job will likely be a pretty simple one.

I have this grinder, a full selection of double cut burrs, diamond balls, polishing mandrels, etc. I have a timing wheel on a drill chuck as well.

I have a few good stock candidates for porting: Husky 266 and 272, Stihl 024 and 038m. I have additional OEM cylinders for the 266, the 024, and the 038M in case I totally mess up.

Which should I start with first, and what numbers/shapes/etc should I be working with?

Thanks for the help.

Ms440 or 038 would be the easiest saw to learn how to port in my opinion for someone who has limited tools but I do highly recommend that you get the right angle makes a world of difference having one.

 

[edisto]

I just use a belt sander and hoof rasp.

I remember an overly enthusiastic guy at AS using a router...

He was wound a little too tight.

 

[Basher]

What grit on the belt sander? Levels the base quickly.

 

[amateurarborist]

Ms440 or 038 would be the easiest saw to learn how to port in my opinion for someone who has limited tools but I do highly recommend that you get the right angle makes a world of difference having one.

Honestly I use a dremmel right angle attachment and it works OK. I also have had to grind the mandrel down on a regular dremmel chuck to get it to fit in a 2511 head. You can be creative and get it done cheap.

 

[jacktheripper]

Ok, my wife was out of town and I had time, so I ported my older 266 last night. It had the SE Mahle cylinder on it, labeled 50ZN11. I had an extra XP cylinder (50ZN13), so I decided to do that one.

Without base gasket, the numbers for the XP cylinder were:
Exhaust: 106
Uppers: 122
Intake: 70
Squish: .017"

I took down the ridges on the lower transfers and smoothed them out, being careful not to go deep towards the case. I removed some material inside the transfers behind the "bridge" to skinny them up as well.

Raised exhaust roof slightly to 102, really widened it up and funnelled it outwards. Exhaust roof was pretty flat from the factory, so I followed the factory contour. Polished everything up very nicely afterwards with aluminum oxide stone, then emery paper in a mandrel, then polishing compound and a felt wheel. Port matched muffler and gasket. Muffler was already modded.

Lowered intake to 78, widened, and cleaned up. Left it rough.

Went over edges with diamond ball, and then ball honed both directions.

Advanced timing 0.025" off the key.

Now it's sitting at:
Exhaust: 102
Uppers: 122
Intake: 78
Squish: .017"

I heat cycled it a couple of times, and then put it in the wood this morning. Pulled a 25" full comp with low rakers in some 20" green pine with way more power than before. Throttle response is way better. Tunes at WOT @13.2k. Holds 9.5k in the cut. Sounds great.

I'm happy. I used the full-circle piston that was in it, but I think I will tear it down and replace it with the windowed Meteor piston sometime in the near future. I'll share some pics then.

I think I will use this recipe for the 266 build that I am working on in the other thread.