Piston/Cylinder Brands: The Good, Bad, and Ugly

[Mastermind]

Opinions on this piston?

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would use a Chinese piston in a 1500.00 German engine.

Hard Pass

 

[Stump Shot]

Opinions on this piston?

None highly.

 

[Stump Shot]

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would use a Chinese piston in a 1500.00 German engine.

Hard Pass

It's not even that good, made with a guys feet somewhere in India. Wrist pins are notorious for being loose from new. Not worth your time for a $15.00 flea market find imo.

 

[Ethobling]

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would use a Chinese piston in a 1500.00 German engine.

Hard Pass

Gotcha. Thank you.

Like others have said, there may be more issues than just the P&C. For instance, if bits of aluminum from the piston ended up in the bottom end, that means a complete teardown with new bearings & seals. Been there. Hopefully the connecting rod/crank bearing is ok. OEM or no, I wouldn't take responsibility for this repair. The only option that makes sense to me is if your friend takes care of this in-house.

To clarify, he is giving me the saw to have so I can learn how to tear down a chainsaw/repair it. It will be completely mine (if he ships it). He's got close to 100 saws for his company, and this one is just taking up space.

 

[Mastermind]

It's not even that good, made with a guys feet somewhere in India.

There's probably more truth to this statement than most realize.

 

[huskihl]

To clarify, he is giving me the saw to have so I can learn how to tear down a chainsaw/repair it. It will be completely mine (if he ships it). He's got close to 100 saws for his company, and this one is just taking up space.

I’d actually start with a “dumber” saw. See if he has a 440 or 660 that you can actually diagnose if it has other issues, rather than bang your head wondering if the issue is a bad sensor, injector, coil, injection control module, etc

 

[Stump Shot]

I’d actually start with a “dumber” saw. See if he has a 440 or 660 that you can actually diagnose if it has other issues, rather than bang your head wondering if the issue is a bad sensor, injector, coil, injection control module, etc

Sound advice.

 

[Ethobling]

I’d actually start with a “dumber” saw. See if he has a 440 or 660 that you can actually diagnose if it has other issues, rather than bang your head wondering if the issue is a bad sensor, injector, coil, injection control module, etc

While I get a 2 stroke engine and an automobile engine are different, I do have a fair amount of experience fixing cars. How much more complicated can it be?

 

[huskihl]

While I get a 2 stroke engine and an automobile engine are different, I do have a fair amount of experience fixing cars. How much more complicated can it be?

They are simple systems. But without the software to check sensors and fuel maps it’s a crapshoot. The husky dealer software will diagnose a communication error between the coil and carb but won’t tell them which part is bad.
The beauty of the older stuff is air/fuel, properly timed ignition, and compression will make them run

 

[Stump Shot]

While I get a 2 stroke engine and an automobile engine are different, I do have a fair amount of experience fixing cars. How much more complicated can it be?

To put it in an automotive perspective, would you rather have your first car to learn on be an old Mustang or a brand new GT40?

 

[Ethobling]

I agree with what y'all are saying, but idk if I want to push my luck and try to ask for a seized 661 or something. He offered to send me this saw at no cost, and I don't want to push anything.

Also, if the saw was running well right before it died, shouldn't the sensors and everything not directly connected to the piston be A-ok?

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I agree with what y'all are saying, but idk if I want to push my luck and try to ask for a seized 661 or something. He offered to send me this saw at no cost, and I don't want to push anything.

Also, if the saw was running well right before it died, shouldn't the sensors and everything not directly connected to the piston be A-ok?

Odds are it’s all fine if bearings check being this was a straight gassed situation but if it doesn’t run properly you’ll have to have that not so bright dealer hook it up to the mdg1 to check some stuff

 

[Stump Shot]

I agree with what y'all are saying, but idk if I want to push my luck and try to ask for a seized 661 or something. He offered to send me this saw at no cost, and I don't want to push anything.

Also, if the saw was running well right before it died, shouldn't the sensors and everything not directly connected to the piston be A-ok?

Most do before an event, that event needs the cause to be determined to even begin to answer the question as to what's good, bad or ugly. A pressure/vac test, a good look at the fuel left in the tank if any in a clear container and an evaluation of the piston damage will give the clues as to just where to start looking for problems. If nothing stands out as a culprit then a check of the sensors by a dealer could be warranted as saws don't just burn/blow up for no apparent reason.

 

[huskihl]

Another builder that I talk to somewhat frequently (he’s on here, but doesn’t post much) has a customer’s ported 500i that has scored the piston a couple times. Previously he cleaned up the cylinder, replaced the piston and fuel filter and suggested he choose a better oil, let it warm up longer, and make sure the chain was sharp. Ended up buying the Stihl software to try and diagnose this sort of problems. Apparently there’s actually a computer reset that can be done to the 500 from the software and reset/calibrate the fuel values and now it seems to run fine.

These things are supposed to adjust themselves, but they certainly aren’t bulletproof

 

[Mastermind]

Apparently there’s actually a computer reset that can be done to the 500 from the software and reset/calibrate the fuel values

Yeppers.

 

[Stump Shot]

These things are supposed to adjust themselves, but they certainly aren’t bulletproof

Definitely not like an Auto-tune/M-tronic type of system, more like a miniature version of a Delphi system as I like to think of it.
Parameters are therefor set into the system and when adjustments can't be made within those parameters is when problems arise.
Lets take an air leak for example, common problem, the system would not have the unlimited capability to deal with such a problem once it gets so big. Least ways is how it seems to me from my limited knowledge of modern fuel injection.

As a side note, if we had the capability to "get inside" with a computer and be able to customize the fuel and spark curves I honestly believe we are seeing now just the tip of the iceberg of the power made by these saws.
As well as the first person to successfully make a performance "tuner" to plug and play into these saws will make a killing selling them.
I also believe, this being the first one, it can only get better from here.

 

[huskihl]

Definitely not like an Auto-tune/M-tronic type of system, more like a miniature version of a Delphi system as I like to think of it.
Parameters are therefor set into the system and when adjustments can't be made within those parameters is when problems arise.
Lets take an air leak for example, common problem, the system would not have the unlimited capability to deal with such a problem once it gets so big. Least ways is how it seems to me from my limited knowledge of modern fuel injection.

As a side note, if we had the capability to "get inside" with a computer and be able to customize the fuel and spark curves I honestly believe we are seeing now just the tip of the iceberg of the power made by these saws.
As well as the first person to successfully make a performance "tuner" to plug and play into these saws will make a killing selling them.
I also believe, this being the first one, it can only get better from here.

The 500 I was referring to earlier had no problems with any of the sensors or previous air leaks, as evidenced by the MDG. But the fuel values wouldn’t move away from the red zone until after a reset. I believe it’s the same thing that was going on inside the 261 at my GTG. Whatever is supposed to trigger them to deliver more fuel is reluctant to do it

 

[Stump Shot]

The 500 I was referring to earlier had no problems with any of the sensors or previous air leaks, as evidenced by the MDG. But the fuel values wouldn’t move away from the red zone until after a reset. I believe it’s the same thing that was going on inside the 261 at my GTG. Whatever is supposed to trigger them to deliver more fuel is reluctant to do it

Some help with the "triggering"...


Seriously though, one would think that Stihl would have put something in the modules for it to be able to be done in the field.
Push the button three times while holding your left ear and sticking your tongue out kinda thing.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Some help with the "triggering"...
View attachment 354227

Seriously though, one would think that Stihl would have put something in the modules for it to be able to be done in the field.
Push the button three times while holding your left ear and sticking your tongue out kinda thing.

Let’s be honest though a fairly large percentage of owners wouldn’t be able to do a reset even after they told them how. Wouldn’t believe the amount of times I’ve been asked how to reset the mtronic saws by the same person and I’ve had to explain both procedures because they don’t know how old the saw is

 

[Mastermind]

Just remember boys and girls......big brother Stihl is well aware of each and every time the MS500i is hooked up for a reset. I got in a bit of hot water over resetting one I'd imported from Europe.