Oil questions...

[bwalker]

Yeah I think they were back to back. Stens even has the FD certification on the bottle. Which proves that in order to be certified they use the honor system with no actual testing just like that email said.

Stens would probably pass the standard tests for FD. However, passing is a minimal spec. Many oils surpass FD by a fair amount. Keep in mind that FD is now several decades old and and came about prior to thinks like direct injection, strato charging, 4 cycle engines using two cycle oil, etc.
One of the benefits or using a oil made by one of the majors like P66, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, etc is you can bet that they have ran the oil through the tests and aren't just saying as much.

 

[bwalker]

Exactly. Even if they sell other ope brands it won't be fully synthetic. Maybe some hardware store dealers would???

I would tell you that there isn't a fully synthetic oil, both 2 or 4 cycle thats commonly sold in the US. All have carrier oil, diluents, etc that are not synthetic. So dont get hung up on the word synthetic. It can be argued that a synthetic blend is probably a better mouse trap for a 2 cycle anyways. Especially a low output ones like a OPE.

 

[EFSM]

Stens would probably pass the standard tests for FD. However, passing is a minimal spec. Many oils surpass FD by a fair amount. Keep in mind that FD is now several decades old and and came about prior to thinks like direct injection, strato charging, 4 cycle engines using two cycle oil, etc.
One of the benefits or using a oil made by one of the majors like P66, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, etc is you can bet that they have ran the oil through the tests and aren't just saying as much.

Red armor used to ship directly from Phillips 66, not sure if it still does or not. That was a few years ago.

 

[bwalker]

Red armor used to ship directly from Phillips 66, not sure if it still does or not. That was a few years ago.

P66 makes alot of the OEM oils and has for some time.

 

[lilspenny]

I would tell you that there isn't a fully synthetic oil, both 2 or 4 cycle thats commonly sold in the US. All have carrier oil, diluents, etc that are not synthetic. So dont get hung up on the word synthetic. It can be argued that a synthetic blend is probably a better mouse trap for a 2 cycle anyways. Especially a low output ones like a OPE.

True, and the oil industry marketing is smoke and mirrors. Thanks for the response. I do have a concern on the 4-mix cam being plastic. That being said I have one that's 20 years old and is looking great. But...as you might have noticed I'm looking for the best oil for my 4-mix engines and as far as I am concerned Stihl Ultra is off the table. I saw black when I looked at my fs100rx cam and shortly thereafter I got a whif of the exhaust and I said "I'm not doing this anymore". Sorta like hitting rock bottom on drugs. I don't just want a good oil, I want the best. I'm retired with an obsession. It's become a very interesting mission, learning from people such as yourself. So, I read the response that Stihl gave me I found it humorous that they said what they said because, bottom line, they indirectly directed me back to Stihl Ultra by wanting me to utilize my Stihl dealers who aren't my favorites. Honestly, my blower was a gift, and if not for that I'd be using an Echo. But it's a good blower that will never use Stihl Ultra even if I have to overhaul the engine. So, if I have to buy and toss various oils I will. It really doesn't take long to see that certain very good oils, like Red Armor, aren't a great match and that really disappointed me. Saber has been fantastic, and I'm glad that something actually works and works well and is "fully synthetic" insofar as that is concerned. (supposedly) I don't think any oil will be ashless, fully synthetic, and offer any better protection and cleanliness than Stihl Ultra so the ashless oils might not be utilized. I totally agree with what you said about oils not being fully synthetic even though they claim to be. Even synthetics differ and so do esters, and my sparkplugs are a cmr6h is not a hot plug so synthetic blends should be ideal. But, my question... Under extreme heat condition running a fs131r without a guard would "synthetic" oil protect my cam better? No big deal, but I'm simply trying to research this myself by using my machines as a testing ground, so to speak. I would prefer an ashless oil that cleans and lubticates better than any other oil. lol

 

[Outback]

FFS. There's nothing wrong with red armor. One tank didn't do anything to your engine. It was whatever you ran before it. I understand you've been shooting up 2t in these streets for years now and you have to have that pure pure to get off but your trying too hard.

 

[lilspenny]

FFS. There's nothing wrong with red armor. One tank didn't do anything to your engine. It was whatever you ran before it. I understand you've been shooting up 2t in these streets for years now and you have to have that pure pure to get off but your trying too hard.

No, you haven't seen before and after. I have. Not once, but twice. So you don't like it sorta like Regan MacNeil when holy water was thrown onto her possessed body. Here is a video of some Echo Advisory Group member bragging about Red Armor. Notice the nice and shiny piston crown. This srm-2620 with a crm7h plug runs hotter than a br800 with a cmr6h plug. I edited to include a bit on Regan MacNeil.

 

[Khntr85]

No, you haven't seen before and after. I have. Not once, but twice. So you don't like it sorta like Regan MacNeil when holy water was thrown onto her possessed body. Here is a video of some Echo Advisory Group member bragging about Red Armor. Notice the nice and shiny piston crown. This srm-2620 with a crm7h plug runs hotter than a br800 with a cmr6h plug. I edited to include a bit on Regan MacNeil.

Did you start out running red armor or the grey bottle Stihl ultra….

I’m not going to to say anything about it I’m just genuinely curious!!!!

Like did you run it for years on one thing then just switch for a gallon or red armor or run red armor for a whole summer????

 

[bwalker]

True, and the oil industry marketing is smoke and mirrors. Thanks for the response. I do have a concern on the 4-mix cam being plastic. That being said I have one that's 20 years old and is looking great. But...as you might have noticed I'm looking for the best oil for my 4-mix engines and as far as I am concerned Stihl Ultra is off the table. I saw black when I looked at my fs100rx cam and shortly thereafter I got a whif of the exhaust and I said "I'm not doing this anymore". Sorta like hitting rock bottom on drugs. I don't just want a good oil, I want the best. I'm retired with an obsession. It's become a very interesting mission, learning from people such as yourself. So, I read the response that Stihl gave me I found it humorous that they said what they said because, bottom line, they indirectly directed me back to Stihl Ultra by wanting me to utilize my Stihl dealers who aren't my favorites. Honestly, my blower was a gift, and if not for that I'd be using an Echo. But it's a good blower that will never use Stihl Ultra even if I have to overhaul the engine. So, if I have to buy and toss various oils I will. It really doesn't take long to see that certain very good oils, like Red Armor, aren't a great match and that really disappointed me. Saber has been fantastic, and I'm glad that something actually works and works well and is "fully synthetic" insofar as that is concerned. (supposedly) I don't think any oil will be ashless, fully synthetic, and offer any better protection and cleanliness than Stihl Ultra so the ashless oils might not be utilized. I totally agree with what you said about oils not being fully synthetic even though they claim to be. Even synthetics differ and so do esters, and my sparkplugs are a cmr6h is not a hot plug so synthetic blends should be ideal. But, my question... Under extreme heat condition running a fs131r without a guard would "synthetic" oil protect my cam better? No big deal, but I'm simply trying to research this myself by using my machines as a testing ground, so to speak. I would prefer an ashless oil that cleans and lubticates better than any other oil. lol

I cant comment on what would protect your cam better other than to say I dont think there woukd be much difference. A 4 mix motor runs color piston temps than a two cycle so the oil is less stressed and twoncycle OPE aren't high stress motors in the first place.
As for ashless synthetics. There some on the market, all being marine or universal type oils. Schaeffers makes one that some guys like in saws.
The other question ai have is. Why switch from Saber if its working for you?
In regards to trimmers and guards. I always throw them in the trash. I use high torque heads on my Redmax and run the line long. Been doing this since forever and have never had any issues with both Stihl and Redmax trimmers. I also tune them on the lean side. Trimmers will take much leaner tuning than a chainsaw.

 

[bwalker]

No, you haven't seen before and after. I have. Not once, but twice. So you don't like it sorta like Regan MacNeil when holy water was thrown onto her possessed body. Here is a video of some Echo Advisory Group member bragging about Red Armor. Notice the nice and shiny piston crown. This srm-2620 with a crm7h plug runs hotter than a br800 with a cmr6h plug. I edited to include a bit on Regan MacNeil.

Spark plug heat range doesn't measure what you think it does. Its measures how hot the electrode runs, not how hot the combustion chamber runs. When you read a plugs color you are looking for an indication of how hot the combustion chamber is running.
If your plug is black you are either tuned too rich, your operating under little load or both.

 

[bwalker]

Here is a plug ran on Redarmor from a Redmax Blower and a Redmax Trimmer. I believe these had a partial season of my sons lawn care buainess on them.

 

[lilspenny]

Did you start out running red armor or the grey bottle Stihl ultra….

I’m not going to to say anything about it I’m just genuinely curious!!!!

Like did you run it for years on one thing then just switch for a gallon or red armor or run red armor for a whole summer????

I had a brand new blower that had never used Stihl Ultra. Never has, never will. I had very briefly run Honda HP2. It turned my plug a little black in short order but did not make a negative impact on my piston. In fact, the piston looked great, like new. I did not like the black plug so I tried Red Armor. My blower ran great. It was running nice and strong. After a few tanks I pulled the plug and it looked fair but ok, except along the bottom of the threads which was black and like a shiny carbon. The piston crown was shellacked with a hard amber substance that was baked on. I cleaned it the best I could with Quicksilver PowerTune but it wasn't gonna come off. I started with Saber and Saber started cleaning the piston slowly, and day after day there was improvement. I had changed my plug gap from .020 to .023 with Saber and my perception was an improvement in how the plug looked. Sorta like it was a nicer tan. Great! So I tried Red Armor again and got that shellacked varnish stuff again so I called it quits with the RA. The plug was blackened a bit but still ran great. It's just not a good match which is disappointing because my blower ran great. So, no, it has never run Ultra. I'm 100% confident that the Red Armor did not fully burn or exit and instead burned onto the piston crown. My guess is that it would turn black in time. So now I'm using Saber again and it's slowly cleaning the mess again. I know how to adjust the carb and I always make sure to listen and adjust if necessary. I've been running Stihl for 20 years both professionally in my own lawn care business and at home. I've done everything insofar as maintenance and repairs from Stihl, Scag, Snapper, Echo, Husqvarna, and John Deere. I know all about lawn machines and how to fix them. I actually grew up in a Kubota dealership that my dad owned and I was his small engine mechanic for 3 years. Ever heard of Snapper Comets and Pioneer chainsaws? That was a while back.

 

[lilspenny]

Spark plug heat range doesn't measure what you think it does. Its measures how hot the electrode runs, not how hot the combustion chamber runs. When you read a plugs color you are looking for an indication of how hot the combustion chamber is running.
If your plug is black you are either tuned too rich, your operating under little load or both.

The Echo srm-2620 is a hotter running engine than the Stihl 4-mix. I have owned both.

 

[Khntr85]

I had a brand new blower that had never used Stihl Ultra. Never has, never will. I had very briefly run Honda HP2. It turned my plug a little black in short order but did not make a negative impact on my piston. In fact, the piston looked great, like new. I did not like the black plug so I tried Red Armor. My blower ran great. It was running nice and strong. After a few tanks I pulled the plug and it looked fair but ok, except along the bottom of the threads which was black and like a shiny carbon. The piston crown was shellacked with a hard amber substance that was baked on. I cleaned it the best I could with Quicksilver PowerTune but it wasn't gonna come off. I started with Saber and Saber started cleaning the piston slowly, and day after day there was improvement. I had changed my plug gap from .020 to .023 with Saber and my perception was an improvement in how the plug looked. Sorta like it was a nicer tan. Great! So I tried Red Armor again and got that shellacked varnish stuff again so I called it quits with the RA. The plug was blackened a bit but still ran great. It's just not a good match which is disappointing because my blower ran great. So, no, it has never run Ultra. I'm 100% confident that the Red Armor did not fully burn or exit and instead burned onto the piston crown. My guess is that it would turn black in time. So now I'm using Saber again and it's slowly cleaning the mess again. I know how to adjust the carb and I always make sure to listen and adjust if necessary. I've been running Stihl for 20 years both professionally in my own lawn care business and at home. I've done everything insofar as maintenance and repairs from Stihl, Scag, Snapper, Echo, Husqvarna, and John Deere. I know all about lawn machines and how to fix them. I actually grew up in a Kubota dealership that my dad owned and I was his small engine mechanic for 3 years. Ever heard of Snapper Comets and Pioneer chainsaws? That was a while back.

Damn that’s wild!!

What oils ratio you run$$

I wonder if it’s because it’s a 4-mix motor???

I just pulled an exhaust off my 261 (little over year old), that’s only had red armor ran through it, the plug, piston, exhaust all looked great!!

 

[bwalker]

I had a brand new blower that had never used Stihl Ultra. Never has, never will. I had very briefly run Honda HP2. It turned my plug a little black in short order but did not make a negative impact on my piston. In fact, the piston looked great, like new. I did not like the black plug so I tried Red Armor. My blower ran great. It was running nice and strong. After a few tanks I pulled the plug and it looked fair but ok, except along the bottom of the threads which was black and like a shiny carbon. The piston crown was shellacked with a hard amber substance that was baked on. I cleaned it the best I could with Quicksilver PowerTune but it wasn't gonna come off. I started with Saber and Saber started cleaning the piston slowly, and day after day there was improvement. I had changed my plug gap from .020 to .023 with Saber and my perception was an improvement in how the plug looked. Sorta like it was a nicer tan. Great! So I tried Red Armor again and got that shellacked varnish stuff again so I called it quits with the RA. The plug was blackened a bit but still ran great. It's just not a good match which is disappointing because my blower ran great. So, no, it has never run Ultra. I'm 100% confident that the Red Armor did not fully burn or exit and instead burned onto the piston crown. My guess is that it would turn black in time. So now I'm using Saber again and it's slowly cleaning the mess again. I know how to adjust the carb and I always make sure to listen and adjust if necessary. I've been running Stihl for 20 years both professionally in my own lawn care business and at home. I've done everything insofar as maintenance and repairs from Stihl, Scag, Snapper, Echo, Husqvarna, and John Deere. I know all about lawn machines and how to fix them. I actually grew up in a Kubota dealership that my dad owned and I was his small engine mechanic for 3 years. Ever heard of Snapper Comets and Pioneer chainsaws? That was a while back.

Tuning influences that sort of thing as much or more so than oil or oil ratio.
Increasing your spark plug gap just increases the stress on your coil with no positive result.

 

[bwalker]

The Echo srm-2620 is a hotter running engine than the Stihl 4-mix. I have owned both.

Yes, it most certainly is. Two stroke pistons always run hotter than four strokes.
It certainly has nothing to do with the sparkplug heat range.

 

[dangerousatom]

I have found that the same oil mix burns different in different size and air flow layouts of 2cycle motors. This I think for the most part its due to their different uses/abuses and full throttle durations.

IMO, find the mix oil & ratio that works, and don’t look back. My saws 50cc and up get Saber at 35-36:1 on 93-94 oct.
40cc and down string trimmers n blowers get usually whatever is on sale…but I add a few things to aid for heat and the never letting of the throttle

To a gallon I add about an ounce of zinc fuel additive and a heavy ounce of marvel mystery oil or trans fluid w/e is on hand. I do not run the stock fuel filter, but a bit of fuel safe foam on the hose and a piece of split shot for weight. I check my plugs probably every 5-6 tanks and things have been good for years. I have one Tanaka string trimmer that gets beat from probably15 years ago that is still running great on this mix. Before I would have the 30cc stuff crap out from a shot bearing, melted piston, or plugs thermally getting over gaped.

 

[bwalker]

I have found that the same oil mix burns different in different size and air flow layouts of 2cycle motors. This I think for the most part its due to their different uses/abuses and full throttle durations.

IMO, find the mix oil & ratio that works, and don’t look back. My saws 50cc and up get Saber at 35-36:1 on 93-94 oct.
40cc and down string trimmers n blowers get usually whatever is on sale…but I add a few things to aid for heat and the never letting of the throttle

To a gallon I add about an ounce of zinc fuel additive and a heavy ounce of marvel mystery oil or trans fluid w/e is on hand. I do not run the stock fuel filter, but a bit of fuel safe foam on the hose and a piece of split shot for weight. I check my plugs probably every 5-6 tanks and things have been good for years. I have one Tanaka string trimmer that gets beat from probably15 years ago that is still running great on this mix. Before I would have the 30cc stuff crap out from a shot bearing, melted piston, or plugs thermally getting over gaped.

Adding a zinc based additive is not a good idea at all.

 

[dangerousatom]

Adding a zinc based additive is not a good idea at all.

Ya Ive read and heard that all over. I did find that it darkened and slowed the fuel through the white filters. I have not seen any negative results besides a white ash build up inside the sparkplug. Does it supposedly build up deposit's in high heat areas like the ring and edge of piston?

 

[dangerousatom]

Now you have me thinking.
Im wondering it if it will build up in the carb screen and diaphragm..... I need to tear a fine running trimmers carb apart and look