New to Holzff., was about to get a 660 but 'hit a wall' (2 actually) and hoping for help:

[Nutball]

My kit 660 with timing advance will kick occasionally even on a stock cylinder with 150psi compression. No elastostart or decomp valve either, so it hurts. You have to pull it like you mean it after getting the piston up the compression stroke a little.

Ugly tree, I bet wood workers would have liked working it.

 

[smokey7]

@Cerberus you figured it all out will. @Mastermind wasn't thinking of anything other then helping you out with something he didnt need that u wanted. Now there are several ways to pay it forward.

 

[9050lx]

Awesome to give a tool to a guy that actually can make a living with it.Reminds me of the task of finding homes for my collections of cool stuff. I expect I will give most of what I own to people who have enthusiasm for the items.But not yet, I'm still kickin.

 

[Cerberus]

I've gotta say that having this in non-working order feels like having a car or cellphone taken from you ROFL, once you've tasted it....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You might not be big.....but you are strong as a bull.


If starting issues continue, get an OEM coil. Ask about one in the Swap Meet thread. One from an 046/460 will work too. Or.....I can send one from a 461. The 461 coil has a 13,500 RPM limit.....but that's great for a 92cc saw. Let me know what you need.

Thanks!! Funnily enough though, it was just me being rusty & not properly grounding that spark plug, both coils spark plugs just fine (I'm using multiple plugs on every test to ensure no bad-plug faults!) Thanks though that's real gracious being so quick to help out on the hardware!!

So...unsure if this is cause for excitement or worry but yesterday when I had my 2nd day with it I got it to turn-over, and nearly startup, with both of the coils....it never actually started up but it tried / it spun faster than the rope can make it spin...so am now confused as heck because it sparks and everything seems fine except that it doesn't actually get to Idle (and its distinctive "resistance buildup during starting", wherein the resistance of that starter-rope dramatically increases during the pull, a feature unique to this type of build - that never returned, it just felt like I'd expect a 'normal' 92cc to feel..)
These "almost starts" were unambiguously a faster engine-RPM than you could achieve with the starter-rope, I even had a 'normie' who overheard me remark to me "Sounded like you almost had it at the end there!", it was probably 1/3rd to 2/3rd Idle-RPM speed....yet no concurrent increase in starter-rope-resistance! Weird!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Re "flywheel keyway shearing" and diagnosing...
Is flywheel inspection on this as simple as using impact-drill and (regular/CCW) unscrewing its retention bolt? Want to check the "hidden" keyway but am unfamiliar with this type of flywheel (keyway is usually visible with the flywheel mounted) so I don't want to go removing it only to find I'm incapable of proper re-installation!!

 

[Cerberus]

[posts should be formatted properly but page-2 of this thread just won't load for me so I wrote-out the following quotes from p.2!]

@cerberus you figured it all out well he wasn't thinking anything other than helping you with something he didn't need & you wanted, now there's several ways to pay it forward.

Oh my tongue-in-cheek joke just didn't land!! I meant it's like the cliche of a crack dealer giving free hits to 1st-timers to get them hooked

Seriously though MM couldn't have known my precise saw-needs, but the reality is that a 92cc is the upper-limit I need and I only need it occasionally (trunk-bottoms only, really, as trees in coastal FL just aren't that big, besides a pair of norfolk pine I wasn't on anything over 50' this entire year!)

But while my climbsaw "bench" is deep, the rear-handles are not... The 60cc 590 is great, the 92cc 660 is a beast but I need a backup (if it goes down and I'm doing an Oak, like Sun-->Tues this week, my 590 is simply not enough, it "does the job" but isn't fast at it and when it gets pinched I'm using my 355t to free it!) So yeah my thinking is "as soon as you've gotten enough work w/ the 590&660 combo, you deepen the bench there w/ some new screamer" and I'd be quicker to just DM my hoped-price and ideal specs to MM than I would trying to figure it out myself, this 660....I mean surely he can make an easy-for-wimps starting machine if he so chooses and, hopefully, w/o *that* much loss-of-power!

It's not even just "deepening the bench", I simply cannot imagine I'll *ever* be competent w/ that 660 on spurs, and I will hit cases where the 590 isn't big-enough.....that's some of the most-dangerous sawing right there, something I'd want some surgical precision Masterminded screamer for-- brands/models fully aside, have more faith in his judgement here than my own!

 

[Cerberus]

--
My kit 660 with timing advance will kick occasionally even on stock cylinder w/ 150psi comnp. No elastostart or decomp valve either, so it hurts. You have to pull it like you mean it after getting the piston up the comprtession stroke a little.

Ugly tree, I bet wood workers would have liked working it.

Nutball thanks for mentioning that I realized I never asked @Mastermind for any stats (if you happen to know them! There is 0.050 or maybe 0.056 written on top of the cylinder, I'd figure that was the squish but my logic tells me that's IMPOSSIBLE since the squish has to be tight since the starter-resistance is so high!) Would be curious on specs if you happen to have them laying around MM, I know this isn't a recent project so am not expecting you to have them on-hand but figure to ask in case you knew off-head or something
[Thinking of squish, maybe 0.050 IS tight on a 92cc!! I only know "0.020 is the lowest for a 60cc" as a 'rule of thumb', but am aware bigger displacement requires bigger parts with bigger tolerances!]


Re "Ugly tree" oh yeah those burls were insane! Actually the excessive % of specimen that was burl, and decay, was so high that I checked my ISA book to remember whether there's correlation (I don't recall their being, and didn't find the answer quickly enough in the text ), I mean of course in an Ed Gilman sense of 'structural integrity' the burls are of course not great but so far as I understood it they were not "bad" insofar as decay, or ingress to vascular tissue or heartwood, but this thing had such a large % of both that it was hard not to wonder if it was causation or correlation!
(should note that this tree dropped a *massive* limb, causing major home&vehicle damage, before I was called out! Just being on it, even small as I am, sometimes was "tip-toe" gentle in my movements LOL!!)

 

[Cerberus]

Awesome to give a tool to a guy that actually can make a living with it.Reminds me of the task of finding homes for my collections of cool stuff. I expect I will give most of what I own to people who have enthusiasm for the items.But not yet, I'm still kickin.

It really is, and it's even cooler because it turns out I have more use for it than I even realized, I mean the goal was to get away from doing just the hardest parts of removals (ie over-house limbs etc) and rarely full removals, but -- simple as showing off the 590 and some removal jobs and I'm getting more calls (am being firm on pricing and actually saying NO now, too -- though I just cannot afford discounted removals I learned that quickly ) calls for removals, am not aiming to get a trailer or equipment (beyond a winch and skid cones, already have good truck-bed-ramps) but yeah the 590&660 let me do this, and once I do it a bit longer I can get another high-displacement and be as confident as necessary Re equipment for any residential removal!!

 

[Cerberus]

W....T.....F.....


So today's session began w/ a successful turn-over of a choked, cold machine. I went to On, tried again, it wanted to go so I kept-at it and IT WORKED!!!

But...it's not fixed....it ran wonky AF for like 10 or 15sec, I think it would've fallen-out if I tilted it but not positive.... I got it on video anyone know easiest way to share video w/o using my main facebook page? Realllly suspect you guys will see this and go "it's XYZ dude" but gotta get it off the phone and this site only takes photo...gah I'll be back I think video here is better than a mechanic, am real hesitant to let someone else touch this unless I KNOW they're competent w/ this type of build and suspect ascertaining that will be very difficult.

Weird thing? It started and did all this w/o the "increased resistance during startup" ever returning.....it still feels "like I'd think a soft/normal 92cc would feel"

How long between tests, to avoid flooding? I'm ignorant on that so I just go-away and come back to it hours later! Will get video uploaded because right now I'm not sure I'm eager to re-start it, the video should suffice for diagnostics and I don't want anything breaking!

 

[Mastermind]

There is 0.050 or maybe 0.056 written on top of the cylinder

That number is the amount I cut off the base.

 

[Cerberus]

WOW Ok I KNOW someone (maybe everyone ;P ) here will be able to diagnose from this, I'll put URL at bottom since it's obnoxiously long and OPE software doesn't shorten links (unless I'm missing something!) but the saw didn't just "wanna-start", I was filming to show this wanna-start behavior and, after a turn-over on Choke, it went and did a 'real' start on On position, ran ~10sec then died. This was repeated once, am confident I could keep replicating but seems it'd be bad for the saw given that noise at the end / as it dies!
(video is 3min, I don't actually pull the cord until ~1/3rd of the way in, from there it's quick Choked then On pulls and it starts&dies, the squeel makes me think flywheel-something but I found it VERY weird it started w/o any of its trademark "hard to pull" attribute, that never came back even though it started, the decomp valve is being engaged anytime you tried starting it, but not since that first day have I had my hand slip or even get 5% of the way to that type of slip!)

Video link, flick to 1/3rd in to see/hear what I mean!
https://www.tiktok.com/@joescissorh...r_device=pc&sender_web_id=7015044373184267782

 

[Cerberus]

[ninja-update: I put clutch-cover on to see about eliminating noise sources, forgot to chain-brake it like a *pretty boy but, with a tiny smidge richer Low and lil tighter Idle, it ran for 16sec before dying this time. Noise was not as-pronounced so am now wondering if it's not coming from sprocket side, but none of this adds-up because carbs don't dramatically fall out of tune mid-cut which is how this unit went down!]

OK this is what I wanted to share:

That's the moment in the video I begin startup (a Choked turn-over, followed by successful startup, then it dies-out shortly thereafter)

That noise it makes...that's gotta be the flywheel, am afraid to touch the carb and mess with it after it made that noise, just not sure if I should open the flywheel myself or "toss the rag in" and head to a mechanic (making my mechanic itinerary right now I have 4 potential spots on my list in a 45min range from my town!)

 

[Mastermind]

OK this is what I wanted to share:

That's the moment in the video I begin startup (a Choked turn-over, followed by successful startup, then it dies-out shortly thereafter)

That noise it makes...that's gotta be the flywheel, am afraid to touch the carb and mess with it after it made that noise, just not sure if I should open the flywheel myself or "toss the rag in" and head to a mechanic (making my mechanic itinerary right now I have 4 potential spots on my list in a 45min range from my town!)

Sounds like it spun the clutch off. You shouldn't try to start it without the bar and chain.

 

[Nutball]

[posts should be formatted properly but page-2 of this thread just won't load for me so I wrote-out the following quotes from p.2!]



Oh my tongue-in-cheek joke just didn't land!! I meant it's like the cliche of a crack dealer giving free hits to 1st-timers to get them hooked

Seriously though MM couldn't have known my precise saw-needs, but the reality is that a 92cc is the upper-limit I need and I only need it occasionally (trunk-bottoms only, really, as trees in coastal FL just aren't that big, besides a pair of norfolk pine I wasn't on anything over 50' this entire year!)

But while my climbsaw "bench" is deep, the rear-handles are not... The 60cc 590 is great, the 92cc 660 is a beast but I need a backup (if it goes down and I'm doing an Oak, like Sun-->Tues this week, my 590 is simply not enough, it "does the job" but isn't fast at it and when it gets pinched I'm using my 355t to free it!) So yeah my thinking is "as soon as you've gotten enough work w/ the 590&660 combo, you deepen the bench there w/ some new screamer" and I'd be quicker to just DM my hoped-price and ideal specs to MM than I would trying to figure it out myself, this 660....I mean surely he can make an easy-for-wimps starting machine if he so chooses and, hopefully, w/o *that* much loss-of-power!

It's not even just "deepening the bench", I simply cannot imagine I'll *ever* be competent w/ that 660 on spurs, and I will hit cases where the 590 isn't big-enough.....that's some of the most-dangerous sawing right there, something I'd want some surgical precision Masterminded screamer for-- brands/models fully aside, have more faith in his judgement here than my own!

I prefer the side cylinder decomp that Husqvarna and some others used to use for easier starting. You don't have to worry as much about the button popping out, or it not firing with the button pushed because it only releases pressure for most of the stroke, then gets blocked by the piston.

And make sure you check the clutch to make sure it is tight. Some will easily spin the clutch loose without a bar and chain like Mastermind said.

 

[Cerberus]

Sounds like it spun the clutch off. You shouldn't try to start it without the bar and chain.

I prefer the side cylinder decomp that Husqvarna and some others used to use for easier starting. You don't have to worry as much about the button popping out, or it not firing with the button pushed because it only releases pressure for most of the stroke, then gets blocked by the piston.

And make sure you check the clutch to make sure it is tight. Some will easily spin the clutch loose without a bar and chain like Mastermind said.

Had seen others doing starts w/o B&C and just naively copied it, "monkey see/monkey do" without thought, glad I posted so that that was caught before I had problems!

The very nature/direction of the clutch basically forces itself back into fully-seated position, once you use the saw, right? On my lil 25cc that always needs its clutch's roller-cage "needle bearing" thing greased, I basically just spin it CCW back into place, I don't force it much because my understanding is the machine-pressure seats it..

/realize that I'm running 2 threads in same subforum and don't wanna seem like I'm trying to steal bandwidth/attention so will copy&reply new posts from here to my "pretty sure I broke the coil" thread ;D https://opeforum.com/threads/pretty...ave-a-q-on-my-diagnostics-though.25287/page-2

 

[Mastermind]

You would have gotten far more replies to your questions if you would have been short, concise, and straight to the point.

99% of what you have posted is simply TL;DR for these forums. My eyes sorta start glassing over after a couple of sentences.

Sorry....just being honest here.

At this point I have no idea what the heck is going on with your saw.

 

[Czed]

You must be related to afleetcommand
I'm to lazy to read much of what you typed.

Don't run a saw without the bar and chain
It's not worth the risk and the aggravation of looking for clutch piece's.
And saws are not meant to run with no load.

 

[9050lx]

First time I spun the clutch off a saw,it took 1/2 hour to find the pieces. Dang things can roll for a good distance.

 

[Cerberus]

tl;dr summation
Saw works a charm, starts easier than ever;
Problem was carb-screws, the walbro didn't keep its screws in-place & I didn't know to look for that :/

You would have gotten far more replies to your questions if you would have been short, concise, and straight to the point.

99% of what you have posted is simply TL;DR for these forums. My eyes sorta start glassing over after a couple of sentences.

Sorry....just being honest here.

At this point I have no idea what the heck is going on with your saw.

You must be related to afleetcommand
I'm to lazy to read much of what you typed.

Don't run a saw without the bar and chain
It's not worth the risk and the aggravation of looking for clutch piece's.
And saws are not meant to run with no load.

No I am sorry, my ADHD (obviously) gets the best of me when excited, and this thing...man I thought I was stoked for my 590 but this is another level!!!

The entire problem turned out to just be the carb-screws, I did not know they could just move while the saw's in-use so I never checked them in diagnosis....

Anyway "my baby's back" lol since this afternoon it's not just "it will start", I have Idle a touch 'strong' so it wants to start, could use my left hand if I wanted (hot or cold), cut and idle sound great (tachometer broke :/ ), cut-speed and power feel great, could not be happier right now

Will just gently wedge something soft in-between carb & casing so that Walbro keeps dialed-in and doesn't move again, also want to go back to the coil and re-seat, LOCKING, every thread I touched (because I already had a bolt I seated fall-out on me, a flywheel cover bolt, thankfully not lost)

Also gonna put screens on the muff, or just get one with screens as they're crazy cheap and port-matching would be simple, but when I saw the clear path from "outside world" to the piston/cylinder my immediate thought was relief that i had not already choked it with wood

So damn happy, and cannot even fault Holzff for this it was myself missing something I shouldn't have....but now it works, it works like a dream, it was tough not having this after getting a proper taste!!

 

[smokey7]

This was painful to read about. I get that you are excited about the saw keep it much shorter on posts your inexperience missed the saw talking to you.. Maybe in the excitement and shine this saw brings out a different person. These are just ope and we are enthusiests but i think your above alot of us. I dont mean anything mean by any of this.
Also i did pick up on your joke bout the dealer. Randy isnt that guy. If you sell a good product in any market you dont have to give it away to get business.

 

[Czed]

Bullet points
We're all old and tired of reading after one sentence.