MS 261 PTO side question

[MattG]

One of the local tree guys, bought a ms261c around a few days back.....wanted a new handlebar on it, after a log landed on it.

I mentioned to him that I'd read about loads of UK-side 261s meeting a premature death....something to do with the crank on the PTO side?? So anyway, I ordered a new needle cage for the PTO assembly, greased it and fitted it etc. etc.

But what I did notice is whilst the crank on his saw was fine, I did see signs of his old needle cage, starting to break up - basically very fine circular half and three-quarter rings of plastic from the ends of cage cylinder (I've chucked them out otherwise I'd upload a pic). I looked as if the butt end of cage was getting pushed around on the shaft and had started chaffing (against the washer?).

Anyway, this saw has a reputation for destroying cranks on the PTO side, right?

So I searched on AS, and found this:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ms261-loose-clutch-drum.265634/

The needle bearing looked ok but I bought a new one that was superseded with a metal cage version as mine was plastic.

Does anyone know what the p/n of the superseded (i.e. updated!) metal one is?

The cage I replaced the one on Ben's is 9512 933 2260 and it's still the cr@ppy plastic one.... does anyone know of a better replacement? Or are stuck with just having to grease and replace the one on my mate's saw once or twice a year?

thanks Matt

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I thought it was down to crankshaft not hardened enough, so when ticking over ( bearing eat crankshaft)
It seems a batch of cranks were crapplie heated to the correct temp. (But what a batch is, who knows, 500 or 5000)
Well that’s my understanding, What yr is this saw your fixing

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Just another thought.

Have you checked to see if the clutch drum that holds the needle bearing is round , with a micrometer? And is it a spur? but my guess it’s a sprocket

Remember. There’s 3 things in this party place that could cause some bother. The end result. Is the someone gets eaten

 

[treesmith]

Changed three needle bearings on different 261 saws semi recently, one was mine and needle bearing collapsed in use, had to replace rim clutch drum as it was worn around needle bearing seat and flapped around after changing bearing. Randymind told me to check crank surface, luckily ok, it also took out the oiler arm when it went. Tben did two more for mates in quick succession though both hadn't failed completely, one needed an oiler arm too.
All running different bars and chain sizes

 

[MattG]

Just another thought.

Have you checked to see if the clutch drum that holds the needle bearing is round , with a micrometer? And is it a spur? but my guess it’s a sprocket

Remember. There’s 3 things in this party place that could cause some bother. The end result. Is the someone gets eaten

Hi Sean,

To be honest, I didn't check that out. Apart the very small quantity of placcy shavings, I think that it all looked pretty good down there. I gave the clutch drum a good wipe and clean, and no sign of any bad wear pattern.

What yr is this saw your fixing

I think it's less than a year old: the insurance company bought him this one, after his yard got done over

I guess I'll just recommend that we inspect/grease/replace this saws bearing more often than the rest of his saws......I mean a fiver for a new bearing is cheaper than a new saw!

thanks again Sean and @treesmith

 

[MattG]

@treesmith

So in all fairness, should I conclude that the thing that the AS poster eludes to (check my OP), i.e.

The needle bearing looked ok but I bought a new one that was superseded with a metal cage version as mine was plastic.

is probably bullsh!t, i.e. Stihl don't make a better bearing with a metal cage? So we just have to make do with buying the standard ones?

Matt

 

[RI Chevy]

If the needle bearing is 10x13x10, you can by the metal caged KOYO bearing.

 

[MattG]

@RI Chevy

Thanks Jeff, just found the ebay link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K10x13x10-TN-10x13x10mm-Needle-Roller-Cage-Assembly-Bearing-/191345452321

That's very helpful. Have you or any of your buddies got any running time experience with these koyos?

I did a quick google "koyo bearings reviews", and some guys in car forum seem to be singing their praise.

 

[CR888]

I run the Koyo Jap 10mm bearing. Am bearings are all metal too. I don't buy the forum-talk-fact that MS261 cranks are softer or weaker than every other model from ms171-ms880. Stihl have been cost cutting on bearings and other small hidden parts for a while now, kinda sucks with the MSRP's they charge. I have used many Koyo bearings on cranks and stuffs, the caber-king Greek Dankidrop who sell high end parts often dishes out Koyo bearings as replacement parts. Use with confidence!

 

[RI Chevy]

I have been using one on my 026. Very very good bearing! I am going to put one on my 261 now. Lol
These are well constructed.

 

[MattG]

Stihl have been cost cutting on bearings and other small hidden parts for a while now, kinda sucks with the MSRP's they charge.

Gotta agree with you there, buddy. Like I said in the OP, there was evidence of circumferential shavings of plastic, when I stripped it last, and it's less than 1yr old. The OEM stuff just doesn't really impress me for a saw with the power and the high usage of this saw. Ben said this is their main ground saw, so a f**ked up crank due a plastic cage bearing is ridiculous.

I have been using one on my 026. Very very good bearing! I am going to put one on my 261 now. Lol
These are well constructed.

I'm convinced!! The bearing is going in the ebay basket right now!

thanks again fellas

 

[Wonkydonkey]

That link looks good, less than £5 delivered, that sorta beats the oem bearing price.

But I’m fully aware that oem needle bearings cost prolly less £1 to make but the sell for top price

Cheers

 

[Dub11]

@RI Chevy

Thanks Jeff, just found the ebay link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K10x13x10-TN-10x13x10mm-Needle-Roller-Cage-Assembly-Bearing-/191345452321

That's very helpful. Have you or any of your buddies got any running time experience with these koyos?

I did a quick google "koyo bearings reviews", and some guys in car forum seem to be singing their praise.

We use Koyos at work and they hold up pretty good for what we ask them to do.

 

[RI Chevy]

They are very stout little bearings. I bought 5 last year. I used 1 on my 026. I like it. I will put one on my 261 ASAP.

 

[MattG]

@Wonkydonkey
Actually that link I posted earlier, well they ain't KOYO, they are IKO, another big Jap brand. I did some research, and they are a firm with a good rep. I quizzed the ebayer and he said a lot of his customers are motorbike guys, so if it's good for bike's little end, it's ample for a saw clutch!

And yeah, for a fiver inc. delivery it's a feckin good deal for us brits, Sean, since they are good sh!t by all accounts......cheaper than L&S charge me to send out placcy OEM rubbish.

I will put one on my 261 ASAP.

I don't blame you!

 

[Wonkydonkey]

We know jap bearings = quality, they have been making them for yrs..
Where as
China = junk

Where do Stihl get them made,

And all the 660 build threads that came up with good saw but bearings were mostly rough and don’t use the little end bearing.


Cheers

 

[jb-chainsaws]

from the 261's I've had across the bench I've seen the cranks fail even with AM quality metal caged bearings fitted from new and properly greased, so there must be some truth in the soft crank rumour!

 

[RI Chevy]

Any idea on exact saw dates? Version 1, version 2? What model years? Specific serial numbers?

 

[jb-chainsaws]

Any idea on exact saw dates? Version 1, version 2? What model years? Specific serial numbers?

I honestly couldn't say, I just know that I've had saws in of the same year that one has been absolutely toasted and the other was perfect, maybe the bad heat treat was a "batch" issue?

 

[RI Chevy]

Yikes. Ok. TY sir.

@nohoff
@ferris

Any of you guys have any info on these?