Husqvarna 350 / 346xp cylinder options comparison video is up!

[Mattyo]

Here it is folks, a bunch of different cylinders, all in one place!

 

[paragonbuilder]

Great comparison Matt!
Sounded like your kid wanted you attention there at one point...


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[Tor R]

It isnt much to think about at the moment, oem C&p is so cheap nowadays that it is an easy pick, that said, in US.
I dont understand why did isnt global

 

[Mattyo]

i'm curious if the oem is just THAT much better. true the price has dropped, but even before when they were $200 for the kit, people were saying it was just THAT good. so, i'll build up a bunch of saws and the make my conclusions

 

[Tor R]

So, whitch one do you think is the best?

 

[paragonbuilder]

i'm curious if the oem is just THAT much better. true the price has dropped, but even before when they were $200 for the kit, people were saying it was just THAT good. so, i'll build up a bunch of saws and the make my conclusions

Matt are you using the same numbers for them all? Or are you trying to maximize each one?


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[Mattyo]

gonna use same numbers for all... or at least try to.

I think they will all be very close. thats what I think my null hypothesis is that the oem isn't THAT much better than the others.

the fit and finish of the oem is defnitely the best. the plating on the hyway is beautiful, and most thorough. the other two are suckin wind on both counts hehe...but when worked over and ported I really don't think there will be much difference.

I will attempt to do a pseudo blind test. when Paragon runs all these saws, i'll let him know when he's done which ones are which.

 

[wcorey]

Should be an interesting test, looking forward to seeing them all running.

I also have accumulated a small variety of these in various brands but haven't yet got around to doing much with them. No Hyway kit due to price
but did pick up a Kafar kit back when they were a bit cheaper and at that time about the only game in town for a 'true' oem clone. I did try out an unaltered (other than Caber ring) Weedeaterman 44.3 kit, despite it's appearing to be pretty much an oem clone, it was (is) still obviously lacking in power compared to both the 42mm and 44.3 oem. Haven't dug back into it to figure out why.

As to the general form factor they all look really similar on visual inspection, I'd be most curious to see a cross section inside the transfers on each. That's the only area I could envision there to be some sort of significant performance bottleneck, considering the timing numbers and port opening sizes are all very close.

Speaking of which, did you do the numbers on yours? I sort of hopscotched through the video so may have missed that...
When I did all mine I didn't degree them, just measured port edges and squish depth from the base with a caliper.

I agree that it seems there's little reason they should perform much differently from oem once similarly ported, but...
A while back there seemed to be a general consensus among those that were playing with the aftermarket offerings a lot that they are just not up to par, have yet to hear of a definitive reason why though. Maybe the latest crop is better...
I remember Old Cat being very disappointed in his endeavors with the Hyway kits but the way he was describing the interior of the transfers seemed very different to what they are currently. What ever happened to him anyway...?

One aftermarket kit you've omitted that still may have some relevance simply due to price point is the $29 Wangluo/Globaltrading 44mm. Not as nice surface finish as the Kafar but the basic form factor and numbers are nearly identical (as was the Weedeaterman example also). Sort of attractive for experimental grinding and for resurrecting all those $20 350 carcasses...

 

[Mattyo]

I did mention the cheap AM 44mm kit in the vid, though I don't have it. I did use it once, and it did run fine. That saw went to alabama I think. I largely think this kit is irrelevant unless people really want to cheap out or just grind on cylinder just for the heck of it.

I think the hyway kit now is different than the one old cat was playing with. iirc, he seemed to think the am stuff was all open port....and was really surprised to see that I had found a source for a quad port am cylinder.

no, i have not degreed them ...and I may not do it. I may simply get dimensions and then port everything to those dimensions. I may degree it when its all back together, just to make sure its right.

the kafar kit and the uk kit i would probably not want to run as is. the hyway and oem yes. kafar and uk both have some significant casting issues near the transfers which really need to be cleaned up and beveled before they are stuck in a saw.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the question of, why... why would ...when ported....the oem run any different than the others. if the port timings are the same, same size etc... how much difference could there possibly be...and why. even if there IS a difference, is it huge? or in real world cutting ya would notice?

my aim is to get 5 saws running, stick a brand new chain on each one, and have Paragon go for it.

oh, and btw, the oem kit 350, once done with the test, is already spoken for hehe.

 

[Spike60]

Nice job Matt. (and thanks for the plug).

You did a nice job comparing not just the quality of the castings, but the accuracy/precision as well. Seeing how they run will be an additional incentive to make the next CT GTG.

Glad you are ditching that 350/353 cylinder. They can be made to run OK, but that jug had some kind of harmonic vibration which is what caused many of those saws to spit the muffler bolts. Didn't seem to matter if it was the dished piston in the 350/2150, or the flat top in the 353/2152, they all had that tendency to spit the muffler bolts out. The early straight port 44mm kit is preferable IMO. So many guys dismiss them as soon as they see the open ports, but they do run pretty strong. But of course in your study, where you are considering which one to buy, then no one would really consider either of the 350 kits, as there is no cost advantage.

 

[drf256]

Great thread Matty.

Your 350 with the Hyway 45mm top end was a memorable saw, to say the least.

 

[wcorey]

I largely think this kit is irrelevant unless people really want to cheap out or just grind on cylinder just for the heck of it.

I'm of the opposite mind here, the cheapy kits are the only ones that still have any purpose, the others are too close in price to oem to bother with, other than in a purely academic sense. Though I'm also very curious to see if they can be made to perform since I already have a small pile of them to do something with.

iirc, he seemed to think the am stuff was all open port....and was really surprised to see that I had found a source for a quad port am cylinder.

No, he had a Hyway closed quad port, maybe he wasn't aware of the 44.3mm kits. He was describing the interior space of the transfers oddly, something like it was just a 'big hole'. I think he meant that the middle partition was shallow/flat on the inside and didn't bulge in to follow the curve of the outer wall.


Hey Bob, good to see you over here.
You should bring a bunch of cylinders to the Ct and Ny gtg's, probably sell a pile of 'em (not that you aren't already, I'm sure).

I've had good luck with the 350 muffler bolts staying tight and of the dozen or more 350's I have, none have wallowed out threads. Of course I don't put much time on most of them but many appear to have lead a rough former life. I have been bracing the mufflers, a small bracket between the muff bolt and top of the spike...

 

[Spike60]

Good to be here Bill. I Really like this site. Problem is I could really spend hours and hours here....... And I already got a list started on cylinders for the NY GTG.

I think you're right about the El'cheapo kits still being a good source of raw materials for experimenting. I'm lucky to get stuff from blown up and crunched saws.

One thing I noticed in Matt's vid was that the deco holes on the inside of the cylinder were noticeably bigger on the AM kits vs the OEM kit. Particularly on the Hyway. I wonder if that would cause the compression to drop a little too much? Not a big deal, and I bet most guys here don't need a deco on a 50cc saw and would plug it anyway. I do know that the 372XT deco will do that and lots of guys have trouble starting them if they use the deco. Especially when they are new.

 

[Mattyo]

Bob....I am in shock that you actually waded through my vid. Thanks for the comments. I can try to look more closely at the decomp holes and report back.

Bill... I see the point on the cheap cylinders. Your point is that there is enough of a price differential to justify the cheap one but not enough of a price differential to justify anything but oem at the top end

 

[Mattyo]

Oh...and I don't see anything wrong with the partition wall on the highway cylinder but yet again I'm happy to look a little bit more closely as my memory serves I remember the cylinder that is in my current saw being different then the highway cylinder that is on my bench now so what they must have undergone at least some changes over time

 

[paragonbuilder]

I'll be happy to be trigger man!


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[smokey7]

Good info thank you. I have a 350 here that needs rebuilt for the second time. So maybe one of these kits will be used.

 

[Mattyo]

best of luck with the rebuild. feel free to hit up my youtube channel for bolt for bolt instructions for 350's

 

[smokey7]

I figured the dealer has tried to rebuild it twice with no luck for a lasting rebuild so I am doing to try my luck.i Plat to heat it up a little bit

 

[Mattyo]

I've found that 350's are quite picky... they end up with gremlins in them if you aren't super careful putting it back together. probably the most trouble I have had was getting the base of the cylinder to seal against the riser ...I used cylinder head bolts that were too long, and they bottomed out before they sealed. so be especially careful of this. once you get it right, it'll be great.

did the dealer ever figure out why yours needed a rebuild in the first place?