FarmerTec not starting

[Wonkydonkey]

It’s a waste of fuel with a big squish, it does nothing as it don’t get burnt..

 

[Larry B]

Something to try. Be sure saw is not flodded or have fuel in the crank case. Remove spark plug and tip muffler down and pull rope a dozen times or so to be sure it is cleaned out. Put plug back in. Do not choke it but spray about 1/4 second worth of starting fluid in the carb with air cleaner off. Put switch to high start position and try to start saw. If it fires up for a couple seconds you have a fuel prob. If it doesn't you have something else wrong. Be careful with the starting fluid because it has no oil in it.

 

[Ewing Waymire]

Larry B -- An even bigger worry about ether is it can make an engine 'addicted' to it by cracking the rings (at least in car/truck engines so I'd assume that it is to small motors as well), Thank you for the testing method, but I have already tried it, no bueno.

I have a compression tester with multiple adapters ordered, maybe here end of next week.

Wonkydonkey -- "waste of fuel with a big squish" -- story of my life <g>

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Before My 660 was free porting @tdc, that was defo a waste of fuel

 

[Larry B]

If a shot of starting fluid doesn't get it to fire up the saw has a mechanical issue. Just throwing stuff out here.
Piston backwards. Bad seal. Freeporting. Spark/timing are magnets at coil poles when at TDC?. Blocked muffler. Bad cylinder. Low compression how hard does rope pull?
Pull the carb and muffler off. Remove spark plug and give it a tiny shot of starting fluid in plug hole. Put in spark plug and try to start. If still no bueno you got more than a hammer and duct tape problem.

 

[Ewing Waymire]

Larry B -- Durn, and here I am just back from town with a double order of both and two rolls of baling wire, <g>

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I think we can work this saw,,, may take some time but better than a door stop

 

[traffic903]

Not going into high idle setting.

 

[Lone Wolf]

The carb you tried is it from a known runner? Can you test to see if the engine is producing an impulse to run the carb with your vac tester?

 

[Ewing Waymire]

traffic903 -- Hmmmm, no idle ever, no slow, no fast - just enough sputter to trip the de-comp but never running.

Lone Wolf -- I do not have any available local help of any kind, the new carb was factory new but acts just like the kit's farmertec carb up to this point in time. I can make the gauge on the mv8500 pulse as I move the crank around its rotation when hooked up to the impulse line, so I believe that is what you asked??

Wonkydonkey -- Not really needing a door stop, so I guess we'll have to make this thing a wood cutting sum-buck!

 

[CR888]

I have a OEM 660 that's a little finicky too start. One thing I know not to do it keep pulling starter with choke on waiting for a 'pop'....1 or 2 pulls on choke then straight to fast idle whether you got a pop on not. Pull it 4/5 times on choke and she's ain't starting unless plug is pulled & turned over upside down. 2pull choke set fast idle and pull till start. Good luck.

 

[Ewing Waymire]

CR888 -- Yes, that is my understanding of the procedure so I am maybe a little too conservative in getting off the choke. I figure it is better to under choke than to over choke, less hassle in the long run (as the TV commercial said, you can pull me now or you can pull me later - well sort of, not really the same but close)

 

[drf256]

Have you started without the air filter and looked to see if choke is opening after you move control lever?

One confusing point for me, was it ever running?

Sure sounds like it’s flooding. You have fuel, air, compression (Ben gay comment-can’t be that low) and timing.

Could you have a bad carb? But you say u tried the OEM and Huztl.

Please check choke and linkage. Check impulse line. Check that carb holds pressure and isn’t dumping fuel. Check intake boot and crappy clamp it’s supplied with as well.

 

[Ewing Waymire]

drf256 -- Thank You for the thoughts, I'll try and address as much as I can, but FYI, it has never ran, just several sputters but nothing more than that. I've done most (but not all) my attempts with the air filter off of saw. The choke works like it should. Only flooded it once very early on with a through draining/cleaning/air out to get the as much fuel out of it as possible (not a half arsked attempt). Impulse line is perfect condition (NOT the FM one, a HyWay brand) Tested the carb and it holds pressure and the saw will provide as much fuel to the carb as it wants/needs. Intake boot is the HyWay Viton one as I wanted to avoid long term problems but couldn't handle the $50 bucks for a Stihl one. I carefully de-burred the outer surface of the intake port on the cylinder and very carefully tightened the clamp to Stihl specs to avoid problems. In my last crankcase/engine pressure/vac test I used a piece of inner tube to block off the muffler and also used one between the carb and intake manifold. Hooked up the MV8500 to the impulse line to (hopefully) find any leaks (there were/are none) and the gauge bounced as expected when I moved the piston up and down.

I hope that I've covered it all. I am so frustrated but the help here has got my mind going back and re-thinking every step of the assembly process. I'm hoping for a midnight, "eureka" moment that seems to be my past best problem solving method, beating my head against a wall just gives he a bigger headache, LOL.

 

[Wood Chopper]

My gut tells me if the choke is working properly it is still flooding. These are known for it. My cross kit not so much but my BB 660 acts like described above, 3 or 4 pulls on choke regardless of firing I have to bump the lever to run or she will flood badly filling the crank. I should check metering lever but it runs well.

I don't know the answer to this but I remember getting my 440 kit and the squish was really high like yours described, so I had to mill the base. Besides just less performance and unburnt fuel, will some saws not run with squish this high?

 

[Ewing Waymire]

Wood Chopper -- ""will some saws not run with squish this high?"", my question, exactly. Any experts out there know? We have those 'pesky' "inquiring minds" here. (being new here I do not know how y'all give others a 'heads up' as I call it. Seen it done but don't even know who to holler at for that matter)

 

[brshephard]

Wood Chopper -- ""will some saws not run with squish this high?"", my question, exactly. Any experts out there know? We have those 'pesky' "inquiring minds" here.

It depends how much the squish drops compression. If you drop below 100psi it could cause a no start.

I don't think a .065 squish alone would cause a no start, however, it's possible.
I think you have more than one thing going on.
1. Excessive squish
2. A larger than oe combustion chamber
3. Unseated Chinese rings
4. Operator- maybe you aren't pulling it over fast enough. Tough to say without seeing in person.

Put all those together and you might have low compression. Luckily it's easy to test.

 

[Ewing Waymire]

brshephard -- "Tough to say without seeing in person." -- Next time your in my neighbourhood, stop in and I'll show you <g>

 

[brshephard]

You're a little out of my way lol.

By the way I wasn't trying to be condescending there, I just noticed you were starting the saw from the ground.
I know that's the official Stihl way but I've found drop starting is easier with these bigger saws.

 

[traffic903]

When i suggested high idle, I'm not referring to it actually idling. Just the setting one click up from choke. These saws pretty much all don't engage the high idle setting (without modification) and it is this setting which really helps in the starting process. Without it, you need to pull faster and longer, or you can also use one hand to hold "part-throttle" open whilst the other hand pulls.

If the saw pops on choke, it has probably been put together properly and should start. Try holding the throttle part way open once the choke is off to test this out. You can use a cable tie to lightly hold the throttle open. Then as soon as it starts just push the cable tie back out of the way to let it return to normal idle.

Worth a shot. Will cost you one cable tie only.