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Echo cs 590,600,620 porting/mod/build thread

Red97

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Al, the transfers opened at the same time.

Just from the pictures and numbers where do you think you would have set it?

I too enjoy talking the how's and whys of porting.
 

jmssaws

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I've always opened quads at the same time, anybody had any luck staggering them.
 

Red97

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I've always opened quads at the same time, anybody had any luck staggering them.

The 3 Quads I have done, I try ed to keep em flat, this makes #4.

Isn't the 661 staggered?
 

Four Paws

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I look at what the factory is doing. You have a long stroke. You have a low exhaust. Intake is on the long side. You have such short blowdown due to stroke and the low exhaust.

I would have squared up the intake and raised the roof to the extent possible.

I would have taken the exhaust back up above stock...your choice of 110 to start is just fine.

I would have adjusted the transfers up only to remove most of the stock chamfer, and widened them to get some more time area.

That would be my starting point, tuning from there.
 

Poleman

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Well.....Just to let you know how GOOD the 620 is. This past weekend myself and the friend I ported his 620 for were cutting some Pine and his saw totally stomped my Dolmar 6100....wasn't even close. First time I really seen it run since I built it....he said it was strong!!!! I see how strong now!!!!
 
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Red97

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Well.....Just to let you know how GOOD the 620 is. This past weekend myself and the friend I ported his 620 for were cutting some Pine and his saw totally stomped my Dolmar 6100....wasn't even close. First time I really seen it run since I built it....he said it saw strong!!!! I see how strong now!!!!

Thanks for the update.

If you don't mind me asking, what did your "port job" consist of on the 620?
Delete the gasket, and widen the intake/exhaust? Did you raise the transfers?
Just trying to get an idea on how others approach porting this series of echo.
Up to this point, I have only done popular saws with lots of porting info avalible. I time this one out, and make a semi educated guess on where I wanted to go...
 

BGE541

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I'm thinking stock they were 150-155 and after gasket deleat was 175-180.....can't remember if I cut anything...sorry.

Mine was 154# before and 176# after.

Nothing?

This is supposed to be a discussion. With hypothesis and bacon and stuffs...

Yes, this is an awesome thread, Wish I had a RA hand piece now!!!

After the base cut
In 80
Ex117
Tr 136

Intake looks goos cant wait to see a video :)
 

Red97

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Mine was 154# before and 176# after.



Yes, this is an awesome thread, Wish I had a RA hand piece now!!!



Intake looks goos cant wait to see a video :)

Thank you, glad ya could make it ;)

Still waiting on parts for this, 620 coil. Decided to split the case and do bearings/ seals while I'm in it. So it will probably be a week or so before any video.
 

cobey

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Thank you, that is quite a testiment to the 620...

Just trying to get a porting/ info thread started on these saws, seems quite a few on as so hoping to get one started here.

In the ones you ported, did you feel the carb was really holding it back?

Don't even know what the stock coil is limited to, but wonder if filing the key with the stock coil would help?
I have a awol ported 590 limited coil turns
13450 has dinged 13500 but the stock
Carb keeps it fat. 10500 in about 16" of wood
 

Red97

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I have a awol ported 590 limited coil turns
13450 has dinged 13500 but the stock
Carb keeps it fat. 10500 in about 16" of wood

Thank you for the coil info, seems like parts availability is the biggest issue I have found so far.
 

Red97

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Mine 230 ish on my gauge,
Pulling a 24" hard in everything.

Hmmm, now that is very interesting....

Might just have to take the exhaust up a bit more..

Thank you for sharing.
 

cobey

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Hmmm, now that is very interesting....

Might just have to take the exhaust up a bit more..

Thank you for sharing.
Alan said it's easy to get compression
Way high, he has posted my saws numbers many times, I never wrote
Them down
 

Poleman

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I did widen intake and exhaust and raised the transfers. I cut the squish and base on this one to get it to about .019. Compression I believe was 185 @ 4000 ft when assembled and this was an almost new saw with little run time.
This saw was very similar to the 590's I did that turned out very well. This is by far the best with the unlimited coil and larger carb appearing to be a benefit.
 

Red97

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Alan said it's easy to get compression
Way high, he has posted my saws numbers many times, I never wrote
Them down

Guess I'll have to try an dig them up.

I did widen intake and exhaust and raised the transfers. I cut the squish and base on this one to get it to about .019. Compression I believe was 185 @ 4000 ft when assembled and this was an almost new saw with little run time.
This saw was very similar to the 590's I did that turned out very well. This is by far the best with the unlimited coil and larger carb appearing to be a benefit.

Thank you, I was just curious, that comp should be round 200 ish at my elevation. So that makes sense.

And happy birthday. I think
 

drf256

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Red,

I'm wondering about swept volume/trapped volume/chamber volume in a saw with this very long stroke.

What 4 Paws said speaks in volumes to me.

This saw should be much more sensitive to raising the exhaust than others. You probably knew this already. Any change will reduce trapped volume and overall combusted charge much more than what we are used to.

I'm wondering if this is a case where a combo popup and band cut may make the most sense. This is the only place that I hate short skirts.

Because of the long stroke, a degree of exhaust roof should be quite a bit of difference physically.

I'd take .015 off the piston edge to match the chamber as best I could. That's my idea without holding the jug and piston in my own hands. It may not be possible.

I see increasing compression more difficult with this geometry. Maybe a dab of 4340 via Tig in the chamber?
 
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Red97

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I'm wondering about swept volume/trapped volume/chamber volume in a saw with this very long stroke.

What 4 Paws said speaks in volumes to me.

This saw should be much more sensitive to raising the exhaust than others. You probably knew this already. Any change will reduce trapped volume and overall combusted charge much more than what we are used to.

I'm wondering if this is a case where a combo popup and band cut may make the most sense. This is the only place that I hate short skirts.

Because of the long stroke, a degree of exhaust roof should be quite a bit of difference physically.

I'd take .015 off the piston edge to match the chamber as best I could. That's my idea without holding the jug and piston in my own hands. It may not be possible.

I see increasing compression more difficult with this geometry. Maybe a dab of 4340 via Tig in the chamber?

After Cobey's compression report I feel a lot better about being able to get compression up.

But yes that was my original thought process, factory kept the exhaust low and 150psi. Didn't think even cutting the base / squish would allow me to raise the exhaust to normal heights (103-105).

After talking with some others that have ported these, they have gotten good results going as high as 102...

Maybe on the next one I could cut the base and do a popup.

With just a gasket delete squish is still round .020, so some would have to come off the base. (.035) appears to be max am out before freeport.

So if I cut.030 off the base, leave the factory band, and .030 off of the piston. To get .020 squish.
Or split the difference? .015 out of the band and .015 off the piston?

I do not have enough skirt to make the squish band and or the piston band flat. Has at least .030 taper on the crown

Wonder if .005 or so freeport would really hurt this saw?

Going to see where the comp comes out on this saw, before I think about welding the chamber. But that is still an option.
 

Moparmyway

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I dont see the taper hurting anything, you can make it flat so its a little easier .......... or you could just true up the piston with a small popup

I cut matching 3 degree tapers in this combo, it was easy with the compound

image (5).jpeg image (6).jpeg
 
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