PAST CT fall GTG Nov 5th 2016

[paragonbuilder]

Someone one time on AS explained to me the chain cuts more efficiently when not dogged in. The teeth near the dogs are worked differently than those out towards the nose when rotating on the dog

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Sure seemed that way Eric. Which raises questions for me about the best porting methods...

 

[paragonbuilder]

I bought a poulan 3400 off an older guy that I found out used to build and race saws. It had no dogs and I asked why.
His answer "a saw with a sharp chain doesn't need dogs"
I'm starting to understand...

 

[paragonbuilder]

I looked at the 20" vids again, the 8.66 time on the 064 didn't cut all the way through, so it's not relevant. By deleting that time, Keith's hybrid wins with all bar sizes!

 

[malk315]

I bought a poulan 3400 off an older guy that I found out used to build and race saws. It had no dogs and I asked why.
His answer "a saw with a sharp chain doesn't need dogs"
I'm starting to understand...

Agreed! That rocked chain on the 044 I brought had depth gauges matching teeth height also... A self feed killer. Dogging in on that chain was still tough to get it to bite into the wood. Need at least 0.025 depth or more and serious point on the tooth to get a nice self feed.

I've noticed some of the square filed chains I've run at GTGs seemed to need more pressure or dogging in to get results. Maybe they just needed some love from grinder or file. Certainly the chain Kevin gave me that is square filed has a great depth gauge height and tooth profile... Feeds great and throws big chips and chunks. Made my 372 like a different saw even. That chain was dialed in!


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[mdavlee]

Someone one time on AS explained to me the chain cuts more efficiently when not dogged in. The teeth near the dogs are worked differently than those out towards the nose when rotating on the dog

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Friction is also hurting it. Plus the chain can't rock and cut as efficiently.

 

[jmssaws]

I looked at the 20" vids again, the 8.66 time on the 064 didn't cut all the way through, so it's not relevant. By deleting that time, Keith's hybrid wins with all bar sizes!

I'm pretty sure with the 28" you had the chain on backwards on the 064. Lol

 

[Deets066]

I'm pretty sure with the 28" you had the chain on backwards on the 064. Lol

Come on down to the gtg J, we'll get her straightened out

 

[jmssaws]

Come on down to the gtg J, we'll get her straightened out

It's OK I'm just busting balls.

 

[jmssaws]

One thing I find interesting from the 20" videos, the times are considerably faster when the saw is self feeding. So dogging in slows the saw down.
Discuss...

What saw?

 

[jmssaws]

My quick video timer math on the 28" shows Deets @15.5 with 28 seconds fastest run, 14.5 and the 064 both runs with 30 sec.
My 460 lost miserably at about 32-33sec...

Fix the chain where it will cut and you will have different results.
The 064 will have to have more chain than the hybrid to beat it with a short bar,
A chain that let's the hybrid scream self feeding will make it impossible to beat with a saw That's tuned slower.
By the time it's on the 064 it will barely cut,I'm surprised the time was as close as it was.

 

[paragonbuilder]

I'm pretty sure with the 28" you had the chain on backwards on the 064. Lol

It was. I was trying to even the feild[emoji33]

 

[paragonbuilder]

What saw?

All three saws, slowest time was dogging in with 20" bar.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Fix the chain where it will cut and you will have different results.
The 064 will have to have more chain than the hybrid to beat it with a short bar,
A chain that let's the hybrid scream self feeding will make it impossible to beat with a saw That's tuned slower.
By the time it's on the 064 it will barely cut,I'm surprised the time was as close as it was.

I'm sure it had dulled some by the time it got to the 064. But it was still self feeding well. I'm not sure how to have made it more fair. If I had sharpened the chain in between I would have been told it wasn't fair too.

 

[paragonbuilder]

I'm certain that given the proper conditions the 064 is faster, cuz it's has to be stronger. Larger rim maybe. If the chain was much more aggressive though, it wouldn't be a good work chain. I was working to hold the saws off the dogs as it was.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Bottom line is as a working saw, all three of these saws are stellar performers.

 

[paragonbuilder]

@Deets066
Keith what have you learned from this build?

 

[Deets066]

@Deets066
Keith what have you learned from this build?

When you port a saw don't just do the exact same recipe as someone else. Look at the cylinder and timing and port it accordingly.

Believe it or not this cylinder only has .022 off the base, it had good stock timing which helps tremendously

 

[paragonbuilder]

When you port a saw don't just do the exact same recipe as someone else. Look at the cylinder and timing and port it accordingly.

Believe it or not this cylinder only has .022 off the base, it had good stock timing which helps tremendously

Well said! Anything in particular about this build that you think made the difference?

 

[RI Chevy]

Just so I understand correctly, this was an 044 with an 046 top end?

 

[paragonbuilder]

Just so I understand correctly, this was an 044 with an 046 top end?

Yes