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Chatter in dry hard eucalyptus (Oz wood thread)

rogue60

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Careful there. You might offend some people videoing there hot rods showing a tach reading 13,000 rpm self feeding in the wood cutting soft pine/poplar. Lol
What's a tach? Must be important lol
 

rogue60

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Why does sap bake onto a chain?
Heat!

The chains cutters leading edge will generate the most heat, ergo the leading edge will dull faster due to heat build up.
The higher the chain speed, the more heat is generated.

Lets be honest, it doesn't take much for a chain sharpened to specs to stop self feeding.
Just because the chain still cuts while being forced through the log utilizing humongous bucking spikes doesn't make it a sharp chain.

On a drill press I can feed a sharp drill bit fast with next to no force, but I can also feed the same DULL drill bit in the same material "fast" utilizing a 20+" pipe on the drill press's lever.
While at drill bits, slow rpm's will feel slower feeding but keep the drill bits edge sharp longer and the generated chips thicker, higher rpm's will feel like feeding faster FOR A WHILE but quickly fry the drill bits leading edge and generate dust.

In dry hard eucalyptus I'd want a full chisel chain on an old school slow rpm chainsaw - 090G for example.

I must point out that I have never encountered eucalyptus, but I work with hard metal on a daily basis - the physics are the same and one can't go against physics.

On the heat thing my chains are always borderline red hot too hot to touch that's normal when cutting hard hardwoods you don't need a dull chain for it to get hot that's with sprocket nose and hard nose bars.
Faster chain speed would in my mind make the heat issue worse.
 

walkdog

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@davidwyby, I’m finding my stock 395 is at its comfort limit pulling a 32” 46RM in oak with a 7 pin sprocket. Well sharpened 404 semi chisel cuts plenty quick for me, and stays sharp longer in my limited personal experience. I would say that pile of petrified logs you have is a perfectly justifiable excuse to acquire a 120cc saw ;)

Bucked a few large-ish blue oak logs with my 661r today running a 32” 36RSLFK loop and was reminded how much more chatter skip chain produces in hardwood. Also how much quicker 3/8 dulls.
 

deye223

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What top plate angle are you running? back it off to 25-20 degrees on chisel if it's really hard timber.
What chain are you running just Oregon? It's too soft of a chain in my experience get Stihl chain it holds an edge way longer.
Cleaning out the gullet as you have in above pics don't do it the timber is too hard to be packing with chips. Not doing it makes the chain smoother cutting in hard hardwood in my experience.
Do you own any saws with balls and not just revs and chain speed if so run Stihl .404 and 7pin. 3/8 is fine it just dulls faster.
Chisel is very good in clean wood semi chisel if timber is contaminated with dirt/ sand. Oh I will add If running RS give the file 10 down.
And regardless of what the internet says round filed is more than adequate.

I will second this especially the top plate angle been doing it for 15 to 20 years
 

Rogee

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@davidwyby, I’m finding my stock 395 is at its comfort limit pulling a 32” 46RM in oak with a 7 pin sprocket. Well sharpened 404 semi chisel cuts plenty quick for me, and stays sharp longer in my limited personal experience. I would say that pile of petrified logs you have is a perfectly justifiable excuse to acquire a 120cc saw ;)

Bucked a few large-ish blue oak logs with my 661r today running a 32” 36RSLFK loop and was reminded how much more chatter skip chain produces in hardwood. Also how much quicker 3/8 dulls.
Open up the muffler and it will lift its game a lot . Mine will pull a 42 bar in gum reasonably comfortably. Not really the best thing though going into hardwood with that size bar as it creates a lot of heat and wear and works the saw hard . 395s opened up a bit ive found are very much capable of doing this tho
The 395 should be plenty enough saw I wouldn't bother with a 3120 myself unless you plan on running longer bars in .404 or milling.
 

rogue60

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@deye223 @rogue60 how about depth gauges? Stay conservative I’m sure?

I can't help you there as I don't use any kind of raker depth gauge tool I go by feel and match them to the saw and wood I'm cutting.
That's one of the reasons I keep my cutters close as possible to same length as I don't use a raker gauge.
When needed all my rakers get a uniform one or two rubs depending on the feedback I'm getting and what's needed.
 

deye223

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@deye223 @rogue60 how about depth gauges? Stay conservative I’m sure?
When dry I still use around 0.040 but that's in 404 really ever use 38 as the wood usually has some ant *s-wordup the guts but if you don't have a really good feel for what your saw is doing yes I would stay a bit conservative but not too much as the slower cutting will create a lot more heat .
 

davidwyby

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Thanks guys. Er, mates? :)

man, 404 must be bigger if the rakers go down .040”. I will experiment. I know the 3/8” 30” full comp semi chisel new didn’t want to bite. I will try to put some hook in it and touch the rakers a little at a time.

@Benwa Arborol the water soluble bar oil is hard to get here but I put some on back order on Amazon. Meantime I might try some of the stuff we use for machining at work.
 

deye223

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Don't put any extra hook in it it will be as grabby as buggery and do more than chatter be lucky if you don't bust a crank .
If you want it to feed just take a swipe off the raker I find 38 Stihl chain out of the box rakers to high.

404 is 0.030 raker depth out of the box
 

Callum

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I find that having the rakers of the chain right is the biggest influencer on chatter, make sure you keep a bit of forward slop so they don't dig in, run them so each tooth takes an even bite, and have a little bit less bite. i also file my chain at closer to a 25* angle than a 30* angle. but there are definitely aussies with more experience then me who might be able to contribute.
 

deye223

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This pic shows how I setup my cutters and my rakers for the hardwood here in Australia
Screenshot_20210516-233831_Gallery.jpg

red box yellow box and dry eucs always round off the front of your rakers like I do and not much side plate angle helps , if you have too much hook you'll get chatter and it will be grabby works wonders on an old 066 crank .
This is a hybrid Redbox cross bloody heavy stuff this stuff is dry yet if you throw it in the river it sinks that's how dence this wood is and heavy .
And as you can see not a bloody straight grain in it .
Screenshot_20210516-233857_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20210516-233853_Gallery.jpg
 

davidwyby

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The raisman 404 semi chisel full comp 42”worked good...for the first half of the first cut. Then it chewed up a nail and spit it out. Good size nail, almost a small spike. Didn’t destroy the chain, just dulled it. I think I need a few more loops of it and an electric sharpener...or carbide chain.7B778C85-7033-4B77-9B77-FFEC5153B518.jpeg
 

deye223

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The raisman 404 semi chisel full comp 42”worked good...for the first half of the first cut. Then it chewed up a nail and spit it out. Good size nail, almost a small spike. Didn’t destroy the chain, just dulled it. I think I need a few more loops of it and an electric sharpener...or carbide chain.View attachment 296477
Nope not a carbide chain go hitting a nail that big with that and it will tear the carbide off the Cutters gets really expensive real quick
 

chiselbit

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Good idea. But I just wrecked 3 or 4 chains last week at a mountain resort. Used the metal detector too, I hit nails 7- 10” in. Some devious bastard must have hammered them into the trees 50 years ago. Still a good idea to get a metal detector though. I’m sure mine has paid for itself countless times. Just can’t expect it to get deep.
 

davidwyby

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next challenge is figuring out how to sharpen to cut Aleppo pine well. I think it’s actually the most difficult to cut wood I have here. I’m thinking square ground might be the ticket. I need to mod my 32” Stihl bar to fit my hooskies and try some Stihl square I got.
 

CR888

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next challenge is figuring out how to sharpen to cut Aleppo pine well. I think it’s actually the most difficult to cut wood I have here. I’m thinking square ground might be the ticket. I need to mod my 32” Stihl bar to fit my hooskies and try some Stihl square I got.
Many of the dry woods on your property in this thread are about the densest I've seen in USA wood just visually looking through videos and stuff. Very similar to what we deal with here, lots of fine dust with a fresh chain, lots of growth rings per inch. Seriously you don't see wood like that much in the states.
 
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