chain guide for newbies...

[fossil]

The Vanguard chain depth gauges will adjust well with any progressive gauge they will fit through. If the depth gauge is properly set they actually cut very well.
They are hated for the reason that people don't understand that the depth gauges are filed like any other. I get some of them on used saws and they seem to be commonly sold in Box stores here.

 

[Wilhelm]

I like Vanguard chains, most my saws are set up with one by now.
They're not stock though.

I'd take one Vanguard over two-three TriLink or Archer any time.

 

[dahmer]

I like Vanguard chains, most my saws are set up with one by now.
They're not stock though.

I'd take one Vanguard over two-three TriLink or Archer any time.

Pretty sure I would take a misery whip over a Tri-Link.

 

[timblankenship63]

Probably the easiest way to get a length on a bow bar is use a piece of bulk chain .Takes the guess work out of it .Bows were popular a long time ago with pulp wood cutters .I'd well imagine with the mechanized machinery of today very little of that is hand cut . I have one that fits a reed valve McCulloch that came with a box of stuff from flea bay .It was a treasure trove with two complete saws and 40 pounds of junk in two boxes the shipping cost me more than I paid for the items .

The bow goes on a McCulloch 650

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[chipper1]

Pretty sure I would take a misery whip over a Tri-Link.View attachment 219536

Pretty sure I wouldn't be on the other end of it .

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Picked up one of these cool gadgets today. Just need to learn to use it now....

Also, in addition to Philbert's excellent cheat sheet, the little U shapes (top and bottom) are for profiling the wheel of a chain grinder. When using a dressing brick on a grinder wheel, a perfect semi circle is the desired shape. Check it with the U shaped index for the appropriate width grinding wheel. If the wheel edge shape is a little wonky, so is the chain tooth that it will produce when grinding...

 

[Philbert]

. . . the little U shapes (top and bottom) are for profiling the wheel of a chain grinder. . . .

Now I have to update my cheat sheets!

(Thanks!)

EDIT: Attached

Philbert

 

[fossil]

Pretty sure I wouldn't be on the other end of it .

I remember my Grandfather saying (more than a few times) stop pushing, just pull!

 

[fossil]

I think one thing that's worth mentioning is filing a well worn chain. A lot of chains get pitched halfway through their life due to improper filing of depth gauges. I think if new guys to chains would learn how to file the depth gauges properly they would be surprised that chains near the end of their life cut the fastest.

I'm a big fan of the progressive gauges that only pay attention to the particular cutter being filed. I've found types like the Oregon filing depth gauges are useless towards the end of the cutters.

 

[sonoransaw]

Interesting, Tim...You got any videos? I'd love to see it explained in person with a chain....

So I worked with one of my chains recently. After I got it sharpened and the rakers filed down, I went to cut with it, and it cut crooked in the wood. I think I remember it having this problem the last time I used it years ago. Anyway, the only problem I could detect was that the cutters on one side were all shorter than the cutters on the other side, probably due to my strong-side filing vs. weak-side filing. I know, Philbert, we talked about this previously. I mentioned the videos online of guys showing that uneven cutters weren't the problem and would still cut straight if the rakers were filed properly. But I think, Philbert, you said that the uneven cutters caused the crooked cutting. Anyway, that certainly seemed to be the case with this chain. I'm still not quite clear on what is happening here, but I plan to spend more time with the chain and try to get all the cutters the same length and try it again. Here are some pics...This must be another safety chain cause it has these wide rakers, which are a pain to file....

 

[Philbert]

That is one of those 'Vanguard' type chains. Hard to measure the depth gauges accurately without a tool (progressive gauge will not work with that chain).

And your Left cutters look a lot shorter than the Right.

1. Even out the cutter lengths;
2. Set every depth gauge with a depth gauge tool;
3. Cut straight.

I would do it on a grinder for consistency, but can be done with a file.

Philbert

 

[fossil]

I will try to make a vid. I do find, at least for me, that a progressive gauge does keep a chain with a bunch of short / long cutters works and cuts straight.
I figure as long as the cutters are taking the same bite, it will cut straight.

Not looking the ruffle any feathers.

 

[3browns]

I will try to make a vid. I do find, at least for me, that a progressive gauge does keep a chain with a bunch of short / long cutters works and cuts straight.
I figure as long as the cutters are taking the same bite, it will cut straight.

Not looking the ruffle any feathers.

Not looking to start a fight either but I am with you on this one 100%

 

[Philbert]

I will try to make a vid. I do find, at least for me, that a progressive gauge does keep a chain with a bunch of short / long cutters works and cuts straight.
I figure as long as the cutters are taking the same bite, it will cut straight.

Not looking the ruffle any feathers.

I'm a mammal - no feathers here!

Even if it works in concept, it is hard to do with the Vanguard chain pictured.

And even if it cuts straight, it does not mean that it will cut as smoothly or as efficiently, with cutters at different heights, and at different side protections.

But if you are going to do it . . . make the cutters all random lengths. Don't make all the Left cutters the same length, etc. And make an identical chain with uniform Left and Right cutters for side-by-side comparison.

Philbert

 

[3browns]

I'm a mammal - no feathers here!

Even if it works in concept, it is hard to do with the Vanguard chain pictured.

And even if it cuts straight, it does not mean that it will cut as smoothly or as efficiently, with cutters at different heights, and at different side protections.

But if you are going to do it . . . make the cutters all random lengths. Don't make all the Left cutters the same length, etc. And make an identical chain with uniform Left and Right cutters for side-by-side comparison.

Philbert

Your random length suggestion is basically where I am coming from when I talk about the all even vs whatever cutter length debate

It never made sense to me to take a brand new $$$ chain, slam it into a fence staple or barbed wire, or even rock it, booger up 2-3 cutters that might need to be filed/ground down to almost the bitter end to be usable and then what?

File/grind the rest of the cutters to match and throw away 75% of the life of the chain?

I file what I have to and live with the fact that those "short" cutters won't cut as well as the taller ones around them but I am not going to essentially toss the majority of the $$$ I spent on the chain down the drain

What do you do if you knock off a few cutters completely and you don't have the capabilities to press out the baddies and spin up some new cutters?

Obviously a large "toothless" section will cause vibration and balance issues but a short or missing cutter here or there isn't the end of the world in MY opinion

As always, I respect everyone else's views; this just happens to be mine

 

[Locust Cutter]

@sonoransaw one ting not mentioned yet is a hard nose bar. They are a bit different in that, NOT having a nose sprocket, you can run whatever Pitch of chain you choose, you just need to ensure that the gauge is correct. The spur gear or rim sprocket on the saw will need to match pitch with the chain (1/4", 3/8"lp, .325", 3/8", 404", 1/2", etc), BUT the bar won't care. SO, if you have a a saw that you alternate between 2 types of chain, a hardnose can be your friend. It's also ore durable, NOT having a nose sprocket, in nasty conditions (stumping, dirt, sand, etc). Given that Mesquite is one of the woods you're cutting this may be worth a thought.
The tradeoff, is not having a nose sprocket take a bit more power to run (lose a bit more in the cut, all else equal), and don't always oil quite as well. your mileage may vary.

 

[sonoransaw]

Thanks guys...helpful comments....Locust Cutter, that's great....exactly the stuff I need to hear.

So I was thinking about the cutters and the cutting....If the cutters on one side of the chain are all shorter, wouldn't they create less resistance in the wood and therefore pull the chain to that side, causing a crooked cut? Or am I not thinking right???

 

[Philbert]

It never made sense to me to take a brand new $$$ chain, slam it into a fence staple or barbed wire, or even rock it, booger up 2-3 cutters that might need to be filed/ground down to almost the bitter end to be usable and then what?

File/grind the rest of the cutters to match and throw away 75% of the life of the chain?

If I get a loop with 1 or 2 cutters damaged, I generally file / grind those back past the damage, and let the other cutters 'catch up'.

If it's something like 5 or 6 cutters, then I want to spin in some replacement cutters (or shorten the loop, if I have another saw / bar that can use it).

Making all the cutters 'the same' is a goal; an aspiration. Might take a few sharpenings to achieve. I frequently get loops that have been so carelessly filed that the cutters look like they are from different chains: different lengths, different angles, etc.

I have received many loops that people were ready to toss out (or have!), with more than half their usable life left, because they cut like ****, because they were inconsistently filed. So I put these on the grinder and even them out. Start over.

If a guy is managing to keep his chains running straight and true, I am unlikely to see them. On my own chains I make a conscious effort to maintain even cutters when I file: it's an on-going process of skill development and awareness.

We are probably not so far apart in perspective.

Philbert

 

[3browns]

We are probably not so far apart in perspective.

Philbert

That does appear to be the case after all

(with coffee, of course)

 

[Ryan Browne]

Interesting, Tim...You got any videos? I'd love to see it explained in person with a chain....

So I worked with one of my chains recently. After I got it sharpened and the rakers filed down, I went to cut with it, and it cut crooked in the wood. I think I remember it having this problem the last time I used it years ago. Anyway, the only problem I could detect was that the cutters on one side were all shorter than the cutters on the other side, probably due to my strong-side filing vs. weak-side filing. I know, Philbert, we talked about this previously. I mentioned the videos online of guys showing that uneven cutters weren't the problem and would still cut straight if the rakers were filed properly. But I think, Philbert, you said that the uneven cutters caused the crooked cutting. Anyway, that certainly seemed to be the case with this chain. I'm still not quite clear on what is happening here, but I plan to spend more time with the chain and try to get all the cutters the same length and try it again. Here are some pics...This must be another safety chain cause it has these wide rakers, which are a pain to file....

When you zoom in on the longer cutters you can see that they are not sharp yet. More material needs to be removed to restore the top of the cutter to its effective cutting shape.