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lehman live edge slab

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A few weeks we got hit with the"Siberian express " .Just flat took the stuffing out of my tractor battery which was a size 27 marine deep cycle 12 volt .It was old anyway but when the temps dropped to below zero and it couldn't cut the mustard .Replaced it with a size 24 due to physical size limitations .Then don't you know the damned old Fergie blowed the ignition condenser and it was too freaken cold to change but in the process I failed to shut off the key .Ran that heavy duty battery down to nothing.When I put the charger on it I thought I had killed it .Took 20 minutes before it even started to charge but came back up,no damage .Had it not been a deep cycle chances are it wouldn't have . That's one reason for my machinery I use deep cycle marine batteries which are often only 10 dollars over a standard car battery.Pot lickers certainly are heavy though
Straight deep cycle? Or the deep cycle starting ? I thought using a deep cycle for starting would ruin one? Or maybe that’s bs they used to say and or the new ones are different? I know my old batteries on my trolling motor I would cycle to dead with a 12 volt light every so often be I was told they could develop a memory if you didn’t and only accept a partial charge. Also used a 2-4 amp slow charge on them but now the the one my boat starts high and slopes off on its own supposedly and seems to work well. I’m definitely not an electrician or electrical engineer so all I can go by is what I’ve read or heard.
 

OnlyStihl

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Traditional lead-acid (flooded) battery vs AGM battery has different charging specifics, albeit the same 3-stage bulk/absorption/float stages:
- AGM requires a higher voltage at 14.7 and specifically between 14.6-14.8v to properly fully charge to 100%
- Flooded has a wider tolerant window which can be anything above 13.0v to 14.5v, not going above 14.5 and preferably I think not above 14.2 otherwise you'll boil the water in the [flooded] battery.. and make your basement smell like sulfuric acid and make any cloth/clothing hanging around fall apart after a little while.
- the old kmart charger wouldn't account for the 14.7 higher voltage of AGM and likely undercharge it
- AGM requires lower absorption voltages around 14.2v vs flooded which is then up around 14.7; read about absorption stage this is often tricky and which actually kills any battery if done wrong
- using a Flooded battery smart charger that doesn't know about AGM and using it on an AGM if it does an absorption stage will kill an AGM battery
- the float/maintenance voltage stage for both is around 13.2 to 13.5v



then you got a cheap battery. no different than a flooded traditional lead-acid battery, if it's lighter than others then you got cheated on lead mass inside which directly relates to battery capacity. AGM internal [lead & sulfuric acid] chemistry is the same as the traditional lead acid battery. my ~2005 DieHard AGM boat battery, still going, weighs a lot more than any you will find at autozone/advance even the optima reds, that was when Diehard AGM was made by Odysee and back then it was over $200. A bettery battery will always weigh more if you acknowledge physics and the density of lead.



you completely misunderstand the charging cycle and limitations of lead acid batteries. False advertising maybe, as they oversold capabilities using tricky wording. But to properly charge a [car] battery it takes at least 8 hours. You can only push 10 amps, and even up to ~50 amps, on the bulk charging phase of the battery which recharges it from 0% up to no more than 80%. From 0% to 50% is when you can do the "boost charge" on those old (or new) cart chargers used in auto shop. When battery is above 80% is when you need to "trickle charge" it maintaing correct voltage as I descibed and reducing amperage down to 2.0 amps or less... which is why you see so many 1.0 and 2.0 amp chargers on the market - they can be small and still do bulk charging it just simply takes longer. **batteryuniversity.com** has good read on the topic.


that would be a DC-to-DC "converter" not "transformer. It would be sized to be in the 1hp to 2hp range, for which car/truck starters are rated at 1.0kw and 1.4kw and 1.7kw last I knew for the small to medium sized starters used today up to the 5.7L/350.... the starter on my 2006 8.1L is a 1.7kw. The 6.0L to 7.3L diesels are 3.0 to 4.0kw starters from what google tells me, so you would need a "DC converter" rated for that kind of kw the load would be. If a 1.7kw 12v starter drew 500 amps, then a 6v starter would draw 1000 amps to achieve the same output... it is not a simple watt = volt x current as the starter initial locked rotor draw amperage is very high and there is no electrical resistance when the starter is not spinning at first. After cranking for a few seconds and the initial shock load reduces to constant effort then the starter could maintain its rated 1.7kw (~2,2hp) rating at ~140 amps. So you would need a DC converter to handle those ranges of currents for whatever duty cycle for a engine starter load... google "who makes or sells a 2hp rated 12v to 6v DC converter tolerating 500 amps surge". Otherwise yes there are 12v to 6v DC converters that can handle < 10 amps, called a step down converter... "buck" or "linear". But from a battery's CCA rating perspective that "CCA" rating of the battery would not be affected.

Lots of info there to unpack. Can I conclude that it is better to undercharge vs overcharge. I'm still not sure if my Ram 1500 battery is a flooded or an AGM battery. It don't say AGM, but it is new truck and it SHOULD have an AGM, but what do I know...

So my thinking poses the following questions (if it is not an AGM):
1. Better to use an older charger without the smarts with maybe less output voltage?
2. Or with such a big battery (H7 and ~800cca) I can use the AGM setting (higher voltage) and let the smarts keep the batter safe?
3. OR it just don't matter cause it is a BIG battery and all margins intersect?

I did just buy a new NOCO Genius 5Amp charger. The same 1Amp is a nice charger, and money well spent.
 

Wilhelm

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My "small" smart charger lists the AGM battery charge setting as lead acid "cold battery" charging setting.
It has to be manually selected though.

My new 17Amp max smart charger is supposed to feature a thermal sensor and chooses higher charge voltage by itself if it deems the battery to be cold.

IMG_20260209_131449.jpg
 
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OnlyStihl

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I mentioned this before (I think I remember) but my Toyota FJ was 17 years old with the same battery. The battery was a Panasonic, that I didn't know, til I removed it to replace it. 17 years, and all this battery knowledge being shared here was completely unknown to me. Battery weak, put the charger on it, what else was there to know? That battery must have been part Unicorn, cause I've yet to hear a similar 17 year story, anywhere.

Now that I have some information, the questions still arise. What about this, or this, or does this matter, etc.?
 
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