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HELP! Inside Cub cadet lt42e lithium ion battery

JD22

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IMG_6344.jpeg1side battery pack reads almost 12v and the other reads almost 3v theyre 56v 30Amp battery packs
And charger isn’t reading the batteries to charge them, meaning I’ve got some dry cells in here? It’s a brand new mower. And possibly somebody in this forum may have a few things I can do to get this mower up and going again. 6k piece of junk, but would rather try getting it going before parting out.
 

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Matt Ellerbee

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Looking on cub cadet site, battery has a 4 year limited warranty. Put it back together and let someone else figure it out, if it is brand new.
 

JD22

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I would strongly agree with you, but I got this mower for $100 from a manager at homedepot. And he didn’t know what was wrong with it, other than not turning on. So now I’m wanting to see if I can get it going. I have all the diag tools for these lithium mowers and the $500 battery charger.
Hopefully I can get it going, before I decide to start parting out all the expensive stuff on it.
 

JB-PlantHeirloom

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> And charger isn’t reading the batteries to charge them

How do you know?

I bet it is reading the voltage fine. It is not letting you charge the battery packs to prevent a fire. Too hot, too cold, or too discharged you can not charge a lithium ion battery. Not to be confused with lithium IRON. Want to recharge your cordless lithium ion tools in the hot Arizona sun when it is 95+ degrees, good luck with that. Most of the cordless systems now have a small tiny disclaimer in the fine print that the battery packs can not be recharged when it is over 90 degrees.

If you want to try self rescue on the battery packs, I suggest reading through the articles on hackaday.io

My experience on almost 0V battery packs it is usually the first cell that gets nuked. That or the soldered connection got so hot, maybe from a cold solder, that it melted. Probably the connector or one in the 1st-3rd place. Your 12V pack might be fully charged, the first 8 cells ! 8 or 9th cell is bad?

I am sure you know to test and charge these packs outside well away from any property you really care about?

If you plan on replacing a dead cell, you just can't solder a new one in. You need what is basically a pulse ARC welder for batteries to retab it. Probably looking about $150 for one of those. Though you can always make your own, see hackaday.

I might caution you that your battery pack might be pulsed with A/C to charge. So, those "I fixed my Ryobi with a pulsed DC jump start" might not apply. You should use caution hooking up leads.

For a battery pack this size, you are probably going to have to break them down by series, and narrow it down to which series is bad.

For a 56V, the pack probably charges to 60v, so, each series is probably 50 batteries. Then you have 4+ of those in parallel to get your amps.

I would look at broken connections on the pack or mower before I started tearing into a battery pack. It would stink it get the whole pack broken down and find out the circuit board was bad that controlled the charging.

You might find a bad heat sensor inside the battery pack. Each series might have one. Maybe the cooling fan is bad.

FWIW: I have tried fixing the charging circuit boards on a 12v/18v (20?) DeWalt for a person's cordless tool sets. Lost cause without a schematic and pin out for the board. I was only able to fix the cheap fairly worthless 12V charger, had to junk the others. The fuses for the SMT stuff is smaller then a pin head. Hard to find, harder to test, even harder to replace.

re:Cub mower

Never a good sign when a product has (30) 5 star reviews balanced by (29) 1 star reviews.

First 1 star review:

"My advice - wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation of these electric mowers before you buy. Us 1st generation buyers are paying the price to test Cub Cadet's quality control for these mowers. We wish we wouldn't have purchased this mower, it's been a bad investment since the day it was delivered."
 

Matt Ellerbee

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I would strongly agree with you, but I got this mower for $100 from a manager at homedepot. And he didn’t know what was wrong with it, other than not turning on. So now I’m wanting to see if I can get it going. I have all the diag tools for these lithium mowers and the $500 battery charger.
Hopefully I can get it going, before I decide to start parting out all the expensive stuff on it.
Still may be worth a shot with warranty replacement on the battery. No idea what that would entail though.
 

JD22

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Still may be worth a shot with warranty replacement on the battery. No idea what that would entail though.
Already did. They just offered a refund. And I can totally understand that, since I already knew something was wrong with the mower before buying it.
I’ve got all the service tools/ harnesses to test all switches and batteries straight from cub cadet also a service manual, and it all led me to bad batteries, just don’t know why one is way lower on V then the other? Like what caused both to go bad?
 

JD22

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> And charger isn’t reading the batteries to charge them

How do you know?

I bet it is reading the voltage fine. It is not letting you charge the battery packs to prevent a fire. Too hot, too cold, or too discharged you can not charge a lithium ion battery. Not to be confused with lithium IRON. Want to recharge your cordless lithium ion tools in the hot Arizona sun when it is 95+ degrees, good luck with that. Most of the cordless systems now have a small tiny disclaimer in the fine print that the battery packs can not be recharged when it is over 90 degrees.

If you want to try self rescue on the battery packs, I suggest reading through the articles on hackaday.io

My experience on almost 0V battery packs it is usually the first cell that gets nuked. That or the soldered connection got so hot, maybe from a cold solder, that it melted. Probably the connector or one in the 1st-3rd place. Your 12V pack might be fully charged, the first 8 cells ! 8 or 9th cell is bad?

I am sure you know to test and charge these packs outside well away from any property you really care about?

If you plan on replacing a dead cell, you just can't solder a new one in. You need what is basically a pulse ARC welder for batteries to retab it. Probably looking about $150 for one of those. Though you can always make your own, see hackaday.

I might caution you that your battery pack might be pulsed with A/C to charge. So, those "I fixed my Ryobi with a pulsed DC jump start" might not apply. You should use caution hooking up leads.

For a battery pack this size, you are probably going to have to break them down by series, and narrow it down to which series is bad.

For a 56V, the pack probably charges to 60v, so, each series is probably 50 batteries. Then you have 4+ of those in parallel to get your amps.

I would look at broken connections on the pack or mower before I started tearing into a battery pack. It would stink it get the whole pack broken down and find out the circuit board was bad that controlled the charging.

You might find a bad heat sensor inside the battery pack. Each series might have one. Maybe the cooling fan is bad.

FWIW: I have tried fixing the charging circuit boards on a 12v/18v (20?) DeWalt for a person's cordless tool sets. Lost cause without a schematic and pin out for the board. I was only able to fix the cheap fairly worthless 12V charger, had to junk the others. The fuses for the SMT stuff is smaller then a pin head. Hard to find, harder to test, even harder to replace.

re:Cub mower

Never a good sign when a product has (30) 5 star reviews balanced by (29) 1 star reviews.

First 1 star review:

"My advice - wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation of these electric mowers before you buy. Us 1st generation buyers are paying the price to test Cub Cadet's quality control for these mowers. We wish we wouldn't have purchased this mower, it's been a bad investment since the day it was delivered."
Battery charger is illuminated with a few features, solid Blue light = AC power available

Flashing amber arrow= fault codes found, external error condition

Solid red arrow= charger fault

Flashing green light= low charge

Flashing solid green= high state of charge

Solid green= charge complete

Before any of these light illuminate, the charge takes a moment to go threw a state of processing before any lights are illuminated of what the batteries/ mower state are in.

In my case the blue solid light is illuminated with zero error codes, and at some point should show batteries being charged but never does. Leading me to test all other switches and fuses for failure. Nothing on the mower ever lights up, so service manual explains that’s a battery issue.

As for circuit board, nothing appears to be fried or shorted from the naked eye, I haven’t test all the individual parts on the board with a MM as I really don’t know how to properly do that for all them different circuit board parts.
 

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JB-PlantHeirloom

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> Like what caused both to go bad?

Check the blades and see if they hit a stump, rock, or curb. If a running electric motor suddenly has it's rotor stopped, it sends a huge spike (draw) and if that is not accounted for it can fry the controller or motor and/or the batteries. Usually it just takes out the controller (blows a fuse if lucky enough to have one) and the battery is fine.

Check the tires. Maybe they were spinning on wet grass at full throttle and then hit pavement such as grippy blacktop.

google: "what happens when an electric dc motor suddenly stops spinning"

a: "When you stall a dc motor you get stall current and this is usually several times full rated load current. Because the motor is no longer spinning, the natural back-emf isn't present and the full 9 volts is applied across the armature coil resistance."

"For this reason, the power to an electric motor should always be shut off immediately if the motor jams"

from the repair manual you posted

> If the voltage is less than 21v, replace the battery.

This tells me the pack should never be under 21v, it will not charge until the packs are 21+ and you must have a break between cells. Because a LI battery should still be 18v just sitting around a year later if the charger failed, and should not self discharge down to 12 or 3 v in a short amount of time from 21v.

If you can find evidence that one of the motors had a full stall, the batteries are going to be junk, UNLESS such high drain melted a tab within the battery pack and saved all the batteries behind it. I suppose a bad zener diode could allow the batteries to drain if the packs were still installed in the mower.

If you find a way to measure the voltage far back from the connector, you will probably find individual cells still at 3-4.4V (just a guess looking at what CC might be using for cells) or the series behind the break might be at 36+V. In that case you only have to replace a few cells.

> shorted from the naked eye

Can't tell with the naked eye. The days of fixing a computer at board level with a DMM, simple scope, and logic probe are in the far past. Even the A/C frequency is so high now on most cable systems (coaxial) such as Comcast you can not even measure it with a normal DMM.

fwiw: When I said "AC voltage" I meant it appears that A/C is applied directly to the battery pack, I would assume to condition the pack or to run the BMS while charging. I don't know why, I am not an EE and I do not play one on TV.

If you watch enough " i converted my LT/GT to electric" videos some of the things people learn are DC motors use a PWM board and suddenly stalling their 1800 watt or 36v DC motor results in losing their whole project including the board. There are hackaday articles on how to prevent the damage if you are interested.

If you measure a cell farthest away from the connector and it measures < .5 you can assume the whole pack is junk. If the control boards on the pack are not available, you really do not want to replace all the cells only to find out the board is bad. Buy your (Panasonic) cells from a quality supplier such as Jameco or Black Box, not Amazon or Flea-Bay. $0.02

$100 for that mower is a GREAT deal. You can get double that just for one of the drive motors, I assume it has two.
 

JD22

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I cannot even test individual cells, they’re covered at the tops with some type of epoxy. I would like to test each one. For now I’ve come up with test each top connected to circuits board giving me these readings.
 

JD22

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Forgive me for being such a Noob.
 

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JB-PlantHeirloom

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> Forgive me for being such a Noob.

Forgive me too, I have never taken a riding lawn mower battery pack apart.

> I cannot even test individual cells

With these pictures, I see what I think are factory test points. I am going to draw on your photos and upload them and tell you how to test with a DMM and how to charge the individual packs. It will be later tonight, I just came in to check my e-mail, I still have work to do before it gets dark.

I just wanted you to know I now think it is doable.
 

JD22

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just let me know brotha, I’ll be home on my computer for the rest of the night, the other battery when I do that same test with DMM it shows grater numbers. So I believe this pack is the bigger issue it seems.
 

Eduardo K

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If they are lithium ion each cell should have a nominal voltage of 3.7v. They would be configured with groups in parallel and those groups than in series or multiple series of cells set up in parallel.
To get 56v you’d need to have a series of 15 or 16.
Do you have any idea how many cells are in the battery in total? Also, is the battery 30 amps or 30 amp hours (ah)?
 
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