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Use lithium batteries at 20% to 80% capacity

Tomos770

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Wow, you have even added MORE that I have never read! Sheesh, I will need to memorize a list to use this stuff because I have def been doing some bad things.
If you want to "winterize" lithium batteries.....it is best for them that they are charged @ 60%....
 

Wilhelm

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Nope, I don't want the radio!
I kinda want a stronger impact drive, but don't really need it either.

I have been storing Makita battery packs fully charged for months.
Their self discharge is non-existing and so far I have had no noticeable long term damage.

It is impossible for the average consumer to comply to "expert recommendations" when the manufacturer doesn't in the first place.
If a battery pack should never be depleted below 20% why isn't there an integrated circuit that will prevent it?
If a battery pack should not be charged over 80% why are all the chargers pushing 100%?
Also, if a battery pack should be stored at 60% why don't the chargers have a "storage charge/discharge" feature.

Impossible to comply!
We are all playing with fire.
 

Bill G

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Nope, I don't want the radio!
I kinda want a stronger impact drive, but don't really need it either.

I have been storing Makita battery packs fully charged for months.
Their self discharge is non-existing and so far I have had no noticeable long term damage.

It is impossible for the average consumer to comply to "expert recommendations" when the manufacturer doesn't in the first place.
If a battery pack should never be depleted below 20% why isn't there an integrated circuit that will prevent it?
If a battery pack should not be charged over 80% why are all the chargers pushing 100%?
Also, if a battery pack should be stored at 60% why don't the chargers have a "storage charge/discharge" feature.

Impossible to comply!
We are all playing with fire.
That is easy, because they make chit tons selling you new batteries.
 

Tomos770

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I went Lidl/Parkside way.....since I dont need Makita quality (ocassional user)

If you buy their smart Bluetooth charger for their lithium batteries you get features as slow charging....and 60% charge...

And if you have also their "smart" Bluetooth lithium battery you can download Android app and tweak its cycles and monitor its progress/wear etc

Something I did not see with Makita line.....yet!

Note me if link is geo restricted....
 

livemusic

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FWIW, if any, I came across this... have no idea if it's valid but it is apropos this discussion and directly answers (his opinion) a question I posted in this thread about why doesn't the manufacturer design the battery to not go below 20% and not above 80%...

=

Why do people say it’s bad to charge your phone above 80% and discharge below 20%?
Q: Why do people say it’s bad to charge your phone above 80% and discharge below 20%?

A: Its a huge misunderstanding on the Internet, repeated by people who kew nothing about batteries
  • I have actually designed Lithium batteries
  • We design the chargers for Lithium batteries to only charge the battery between 20% and 80% of its absolute capacity
  • Operating the battery outside of that range could significantly shorten its life
  • Its an anomaly of Lithium battery technology
  • When you see the phone display 0% charge, its actually at 20%
  • When you see the phone display 100% charge, its actually at 80%
  • The charge control chip in the phone or tablet automatically takes care of the charge level so you should not be trying to manage it, you are actually wasting your time
  • Depending on the specific battery, the low level might be 10%, the high level might be 90%, you don't know that and cannot find out, only the battery designer knows it, they tell the phone manufacturer who sets the chip to the proper levels, this is not something for you to worry about
  • Just use your phone normally, it actually does not matter at what point you recharge it
  • Just plug it into the charger when you go to bed at night and it will be fully charged when you wake up in the morning, for most people that is enough to get through the whole day
 

Ketchup

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The worst thing is to keep trying to use the battery after it has quit from low power.

The rest is a question of how the brand designed the electronics. Time will tell.

If you’re running off brand import batteries don’t expect longevity.
 

bucketofguts

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Any advice on a battery powered trimmer. My sister wante to make her boxwoods have a state trooper haircut. Tried to talk her into gas. She does yoga and is fit. She has brown hair.
 

Bill G

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Any advice on a battery powered trimmer. My sister wante to make her boxwoods have a state trooper haircut. Tried to talk her into gas. She does yoga and is fit. She has brown hair.
There is a joke to be had there but I will not touch it.
 

bucketofguts

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"Comfortable" said very slowly. There is a hint! 1 $ per word is another. Sorry off topic, but it seens a good segue with the battery issue solved.
 

Likesaws

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FWIW, if any, I came across this... have no idea if it's valid but it is apropos this discussion and directly answers (his opinion) a question I posted in this thread about why doesn't the manufacturer design the battery to not go below 20% and not above 80%...

=

Why do people say it’s bad to charge your phone above 80% and discharge below 20%?
Q: Why do people say it’s bad to charge your phone above 80% and discharge below 20%?

A: Its a huge misunderstanding on the Internet, repeated by people who kew nothing about batteries
  • I have actually designed Lithium batteries
  • We design the chargers for Lithium batteries to only charge the battery between 20% and 80% of its absolute capacity
  • Operating the battery outside of that range could significantly shorten its life
  • Its an anomaly of Lithium battery technology
  • When you see the phone display 0% charge, its actually at 20%
  • When you see the phone display 100% charge, its actually at 80%
  • The charge control chip in the phone or tablet automatically takes care of the charge level so you should not be trying to manage it, you are actually wasting your time
  • Depending on the specific battery, the low level might be 10%, the high level might be 90%, you don't know that and cannot find out, only the battery designer knows it, they tell the phone manufacturer who sets the chip to the proper levels, this is not something for you to worry about
  • Just use your phone normally, it actually does not matter at what point you recharge it
  • Just plug it into the charger when you go to bed at night and it will be fully charged when you wake up in the morning, for most people that is enough to get through the whole day
Ok I stand by my 80% claim. But I agree with what is said here. The builders know better than me.
Best thing to do really is to charge the batteries as they were designed. Don’t leave them plugged
in. When they go bad replace the battery and go on.
 

Bill G

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I know as much about battery technology as I do about women .......hence not a damn thing but I wonder how it is a guy is supposed to know the relative charge or discharge of a battery.
 

Wilhelm

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I know as much about battery technology as I do about women .......hence not a damn thing but I wonder how it is a guy is supposed to know the relative charge or discharge of a battery.
By either weight or volume reduction!
Seriously ....
 

ZERO

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One reason why we want to charge at a slow rate is to allow all the chemicals in the battery to migrate properly and slowly into their charge state. Today’s technology is good for about 1C as they say, or charger at the speed on one capacity of the battery, which puts us at the 1-hour mark. Anything faster than that, and we are damaging the cells more than the normal rate.

Second reason to charge slow is to keep the battery voltage at a lower rate. Today’s cells are considered full at the 4.200V mark, there is newer technology that bumps this up to 4.350V. As lithium batteries near completion in their charge cycle, all chargers, slow, fast, and anything in between has to slow down in the last 20%-30% charging rate. Fuller batteries are not able to convert all of the energy supplied and they shed the excess energy by heating up. Thus why all chargers have to slow down until a full state of charge is achieved, otherwise cells get over charged, damaging the cells.

During the charging process, a lithium battery has the same characteristics and a car lead acid battery. The CC/CV charge cycle, Constant Current – the fast charge at the beginning of the charge cycle when the battery is completely empty. The charger can apply maximum current it is designed for and monitors cells as they near the 4.200v maximum. / Constant Voltage – when the battery is no longer able to handle all the energy supplied by the charger, voltage reaches 4.200V and now the charger has to scale back the current as to not over charge or raise the cell voltage over 4.200V. Over voltage, damages the cells by oxidizing the electrodes, further overcharging raises the cell temperature further damaging the cell, more further overcharging causes a thermal run-away reaction and combined with oxygen, cell catches on fire.

The concept of slow charging is that of a dimmer switch. The battery applies a load on the slow charger, is able to consume all current applied, cell voltage is kept far from the 4.200v threshold. As we turn down a dimmer switch, we restrict the flow of energy, (current) light bulb is able to consume all supplied energy, voltage drops, bulb starts to dim. Same concept applies to old school flash lights without electronic regulation when batteries were at the end of life.

A fast charger is a full open dimmer switch, during the constant current phase, charger blasts the battery with the max current it is rated for, causing a higher overall voltage throughout the charge cycle. A fast charger will have to start scaling back much sooner than a slow charger as the battery will reach the 4.200V threshold much faster. The battery is not fully charged, it may only be at the 50% charger rate, the higher current causes the initial voltage spike, requiring a much sooner throttle back response than a slow charger. That is why a fast charger has active cooling, while a slow charger does not, as passive cooling is more than enough. A slow charger will also get to 4.200V but that happens much later in the 80%-90% thus saving the cell from heat and higher voltage.


slow charge.jpg
 
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