Aspen Alkylate Fuel

[Ford3000]

idk what ur pump gas isn like, but i run strictly 87 octane regular gas. i go through probly 150 gallons of mixed fuel every year. for the last 10-12 years anyway. not one single carb kit in a machine i use regularly. yeah, if u leave ethanol fuel laying around for months, you could encounter problems, but i think its honestly an overblown thing.

I think this is most peoples experience too, old fuel lying around is a big issue, saws used often usually
have less issues than ones started now and again.
And in most cases too you need to re adjust the carb when the fuel type changes, whether its standard
fuel of different octane or Aspen. I got bad / different fuel from a supplier once, and I thought the saw was a goner,
it went like nothing on earth, until I asked a man who cuts regularly, he said I hope you didn't get your
fuel off so and so, well I did, dumped it out and put in the fuel the Guards use i their cars, mixed of course
and back to normal.

 

[jakethesnake]

I run pump gas. Have for years. No issues worth mentioning. I’ve got a saw my old man bought for me back in 03-02. Never had a carb kit. Gets put up with whatever amount of fuel is left in tank. If it sits loooong I dump fuel on ground and refill
I’m not terribly picky about oil but I try to find something that says it has stabilizers in it. Works for me

 

[Nutball]

Well, crap. I put some saws away in storage with canned fuel after having run pump gas through them. You'd think they would have developed fuel proof carb parts that wouldn't get picky about fuel type.

Anyway, the Aspen gas hardly smells like anything, certainly not the stench of pump gas. It smells kind of like fuel system cleaner. The exhaust isn't nearly as stinky either. It also has some odd smell that you can tell it definitely is running a different fuel. I nearly doubled the oil content with Red Armor and am milling pine with a stock 572.

 

[cus_deluxe]

I have to fix around 50-100 lawn mowers each spring due to old garbage fuel. We have E10 95Ron. If it was ethanol free it would be fine. But even our 98RON ia E5.

like i said, you guys are apparently in a different situation with ur pump fuel. and yeah, something that sits 6-8 months at a time is a bad application for ethanol-containing fuel. all i was trying to do is make that point that “station fuel” isnt all garbage, and not everbody (me included) can pay $20-25+ for a gallon of mix. id have to raise my rates by $15 an hour for leaf blowing and thats just not realistic.

 

[cus_deluxe]

i just cannot wrap my head around someone using this stuff unless:
they are forced by law
the smell of gasoline exhaust really bothers them that much
have too much money
fall for marketing gimmicks.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

i just cannot wrap my head around someone using this stuff unless:
they are forced by law
the smell of gasoline exhaust really bothers them that much
have too much money
fall for marketing gimmicks.

It’s the perfect fuel for my buddy, he runs 2-4 qts per year between his little chainsaw, the weed trimmer and his ice auger.

 

[jakethesnake]

I get it if someone’s using 2 cans of fuel a year (the quart cans). I can’t justify cost. My whole fleet runs on ethanol all treated the same. Meh they run good.
I use oem fuel lines (echo) other than a fuel line that’s 10+ years old occasionally. Nothing that’s turned me off. Some of my stuff sits pretty long. You can only run so many chainsaws. Dump fuel refill Start and go. I think the oil in the fuel helps or I’m just lucky like cus

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I get it if someone’s using 2 cans of fuel a year (the quart cans). I can’t justify cost. My whole fleet runs on ethanol all treated the same. Meh they run good.
I use oem fuel lines (echo) other than a fuel line that’s 10+ years old occasionally. Nothing that’s turned me off. Some of my stuff sits pretty long. You can only run so many chainsaws. Dump fuel refill Start and go. I think the oil in the fuel helps or I’m just lucky like cus

I’ve run e-free 91 and plenty of 87 e-10 if I’m using it quick, honestly never had an issue much with any of it because I won’t let it get old. It will get dumped in an old tractor or something to get burned up. I still try to use 91 e-free but if it’s not at the pump I’ll buy 89 e-10

 

[AlexStromberg]

i just cannot wrap my head around someone using this stuff unless:
they are forced by law
the smell of gasoline exhaust really bothers them that much
have too much money
fall for marketing gimmicks.

Make the customer pay for it, here if you run OPE commercially you are almost always required to run alkylate. So the customer gets that. Biggest running cost is the company vehicle. The saws or what have you has often paid for itself within a week.

And not having downtime due to carbs would most likely offset the cost.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I think there’s a few different points being spoken about here.
Pump gas with ethanol
Pump gas without ethanol
Aspen/motomix
Canned fuel
And all probably do & can have different octane ratings.

from what I’ve learnt in the past ethanol was bad on rubber that was used in the motor industry, its also hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air) most of the rubbers have now changed the compositions ie to better things like vitron rubbers
Pump gas isn’t as bad on rubbers but it still has an effect on them over time, ie it hardens them.

Pump gas does go off over time. (Those higher volatile elements evaporate) this leads to harder starting of the engine. what also happens when it evaporates is what’s left is thicker and a bit more gummy and what can be discribed as varnish. This can and does block up jets & other small orifices.
If you add ethanol to the pump gas it may give it a boost (increase the octane), but there are all those added problems further down the road.

I’m guessing canned fuel is for those that can’t get ethanol free fuel at the pump and keeps better because it’s in a can.

Aspen & motomix aer really a mix of other more stable elements that are refined and chemically re-bonded at the refinery. So for this reason it is better as it doesn’t contain some of the components of petrol that they say are harmfu etc. it is also better as this fuel because it is more stable
However there is a higher cost, as all manufacturers charge more for smaller amounts. So it always means we pay more. also we still pay fuel duty (insert your %) it’s more than 50% in the uk.
And that’s even thou it’s better for everyone & thing (planet)

Also as it’s been said previously….
For some the cost is way too much.
The benefits are not there because,
some guys like me understand all the positives and negatives with each fuel and drain out the fuel/run the carb dry at the end of the season or if they are not using it for a few months.


I'm sure there are other things I’ve missed, like “premixed fuel” which makes it simple for Jonnyhomeowner… that forgets if & how much oil to add..

As with everything….Ymmv…

this is just as I see it

 

[jakethesnake]

Just to specify I’m using ethanol

 

[Timjus]

10 tanks in 550xp price difference is 8$ if i run pump junk here
pump/self mixed will cost 12.2e for 5 litre current price
and 5 litre alkylate husqvarna xp 2t cost me 20e

 

[Timjus]

but in the other way looking it would cost me more to cut with humbolt/full warp then it cost to run with conventional and alkylate.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

For me, just fyi
Aspen is £20 for 5 lts or a bit cheaper if I buy more.
Fuel is £7.50 for 5lts + about £1 or less for the 2stroke oil to mix it @ your ratio 40\50:1

I would have to travel to buy aspen or pay for delivery so that’s more expense to add on

When you look/ converted it @ your exchange rate you can see it is more than 50% cheaper for petrol.

so I guess if you added 50% of what you think your machinery costs that you are already using on a job. would a customer pay that much more , or should i keep it as it is.

 

[BK13]

I stumbled upon some at a local shop at a no brainer cost, so I bought all I could carry. Works fine in my four-stroke-that-requires-premix Stihl trimmer.

 

[Spike60]

It's tough to make the math work with aspen, and the more you use the tougher it gets. But I'll share what we learned having the stuff in the store the last 3-4 years.

First, it's amazing stuff. Completely unlike any canned fuel out there. We began to discover what it would do on some problem/fussy two stroke units in the shop. Saws, trimmers, 2 cycle tiller. (with a tecumseh motor no less) Idles would change, acceleration would improve, smoke would disappear. Funny thing is we discovered this independently. Then one of us said, "have you tried any of this stuff?" And we had both been seeing the same results. Results that we never saw with any brand of canned fuel.

Started joking, calling it "mechanic in a bottle" or should we put it on the payroll. The recommendation had always been mostly to customers who hardly used their equipment. Homeowners as well as fire companies whose emergency equipment would never start in the emergency.

Again, any other canned fuel, or non ethanol pump gas would solve the "ethanol issues". But we honestly found this stuff to be real unique. At $8 a liter, it ain't cheap. And so am I if I had to pay that. But when we closed the store last month, we had 8 cases of liters in the showroom. Guys were asking what we wanted for the Aspen, and the answer was "It ain't for sale". We each took 4 cases home for ourselves. What's that, about $400 worth of fuel each? Yeah, neither of us would ever be paying that!

I don't plan to run through it on the firewood pile. But when I pull out the classic saws that don't get run very often, that's what they're gonna get. In that role, it also seems that saws that have been sitting come out of their "slumber" right away.

 

[Nutball]

No horrible stench on my clothes after a day of milling! And the exhaust even smells good at times, though I still try to avoid breathing it. And, yes, practically no smoke even though I added nearly 2.5oz of red armor to a bottle of premixed Aspen. I'll check the 572 plug and piston after a few gallons to see if the carbon has been cleaned off. It may be worth charging the customer an extra $20-40 for using Aspen. I do know of a sort of high class little tree removal company that only uses canned Truefuel 50:1.

 

[Spike60]

We actually did something like that with some of the "been sitting" customers. Give them the rest of the bottle, with the $8 on the bill. You get to read folks after a while, so we'd also tell them the repair was guaranteed on our fuel, but not whatever was left in their fuel can.

While we're on this topic, it's amazing how many people would claim they were running fresh fuel they just bought, yet never gave a thought to the bad fuel in their unit or gas can. Our comeback on that was if you had 1/2 gallon of spoiled milk in the fridge, you wouldn't pour in fresh milk and expect to drink it.

 

[gurwald]

.

Again, any other canned fuel, or non ethanol pump gas would solve the "ethanol issues". But we honestly found this stuff to be real unique. At $8 a liter, it ain't cheap. And so am I if I had to pay that. But when we closed the store last month, we had 8 cases of liters in the showroom. Guys were asking what we wanted for the Aspen, and the answer was "It ain't for sale". We each took 4 cases home for ourselves. What's that, about $400 worth of fuel each? Yeah, neither of us would ever be paying that!

Its half the price here in Sweden. 40 Sek = 4$ for a liter. Unless you ment 8$ for a gallon..?
Must be the first time anything is cheaper over here...

 

[redneckhillbilly]

I am intrigued after reading this thread, if I ever come across this stuff I'm going to buy a can and use it for winter storage of all my small engine equipment.