A new 357xp piston question

[Ronie]

Reply from lil red barn:

View attachment 210365

I asked about the one for the 372xt, it has the same triangle pointing towards the exhaust and they said EU to me so I would say the are being deceptive.

 

[Ronie]

Just wanted to add that they do look nice. This one is going to be going in a saw sometime.

 

[Derf]

So I actually need a 357XP piston, and thought I'd see about the LilRedBarn popup jobbie. I also hedged my bets and bought a Meteor. I took a bunch of crappy cell phone pics in case it helps anyone. My mics are at work so I can't measure tolerances. I'm too lazy to pull out my digital scale and weigh them right now. The OEM piston is out in the garage still on the crank so no comparison to that right now either. The LilRedBarn is more expensive than Meteor, but I really think it should be the other way around.

First pic is the LilRedBarn (top) and the Meteor (bottom) side by side. The machining on the LilRedBarn piston top is more pronounced. If you run your fingernail over the surface grooves the LilRedBarn is louder than the meteor. That comes from running a tool at faster feeds and speeds. It produces more of a roughing cut than a finish cut. The finish is finer, and in my opinion nicer, on the Meteor. However, this probably will make zero difference in how it runs.


Next up is the side profile of the LilRedBarn. The finish continues down the side of the piston skirt. It might actually be an advantage to hold oil better, I don't know. On the sides of the piston below the piston pin bore, the bottom edge of the piston skirt looks like it was hand-finished with a grinder, as evidenced by what looks like chatter; it doesn't look like a uniform CNC machining job. The inside surfaces of the piston pin bore boss (toward the center of the piston) are non machined. The unmachined cast area on the outside of the piston around the piston pin bore has micro-chips at the edges where it meets the machined wall indicative of dull tooling being used.


The next picture is the Meteor. The smooth finish continues down the side walls of the piston skirt. The un-machined casting around the pin bore looks better to me than the LilRedBarn. The inside surface of the piston pin bore boss is machined. The bottom edge of the piston on the sides is not finished by hand or machine, but the machining of the piston skirt left no noticeable burr that necessitates chamfering that edge.


Here is the bottom of the LilRedBarn. The entire bottom edge of the piston is un-machined raw casting. There is casting flash on the pin bore boss (bottom side boss in the photo) because it is an unmachined surface. The casting has a dull finish.


And here is the bottom of the Meteor. The bottom of the front and back skirt is machined. As mentioned before, the inside bosses of the pin bore are machined. In general the cast aluminum has more of a gloss finish to it.

 

[XP_Slinger]

So I actually need a 357XP piston, and thought I'd see about the LilRedBarn popup jobbie. I also hedged my bets and bought a Meteor. I took a bunch of crappy cell phone pics in case it helps anyone. My mics are at work so I can't measure tolerances. I'm too lazy to pull out my digital scale and weigh them right now. The OEM piston is out in the garage still on the crank so no comparison to that right now either. The LilRedBarn is more expensive than Meteor, but I really think it should be the other way around.

First pic is the LilRedBarn (top) and the Meteor (bottom) side by side. The machining on the LilRedBarn piston top is more pronounced. If you run your fingernail over the surface grooves the LilRedBarn is louder than the meteor. That comes from running a tool at faster feeds and speeds. It produces more of a roughing cut than a finish cut. The finish is finer, and in my opinion nicer, on the Meteor. However, this probably will make zero difference in how it runs.
View attachment 210397

Next up is the side profile of the LilRedBarn. The finish continues down the side of the piston skirt. It might actually be an advantage to hold oil better, I don't know. On the sides of the piston below the piston pin bore, the bottom edge of the piston skirt looks like it was hand-finished with a grinder, as evidenced by what looks like chatter; it doesn't look like a uniform CNC machining job. The inside surfaces of the piston pin bore boss (toward the center of the piston) are non machined. The unmachined cast area on the outside of the piston around the piston pin bore has micro-chips at the edges where it meets the machined wall indicative of dull tooling being used.
View attachment 210394

The next picture is the Meteor. The smooth finish continues down the side walls of the piston skirt. The un-machined casting around the pin bore looks better to me than the LilRedBarn. The inside surface of the piston pin bore boss is machined. The bottom edge of the piston on the sides is not finished by hand or machine, but the machining of the piston skirt left no noticeable burr that necessitates chamfering that edge.
View attachment 210395

Here is the bottom of the LilRedBarn. The entire bottom edge of the piston is un-machined raw casting. There is casting flash on the pin bore boss (bottom side boss in the photo) because it is an unmachined surface. The casting has a dull finish.
View attachment 210393

And here is the bottom of the Meteor. The bottom of the front and back skirt is machined. As mentioned before, the inside bosses of the pin bore are machined. In general the cast aluminum has more of a gloss finish to it.
View attachment 210396

Nice comparison, thanks for taking the time.

 

[sunfish]

OEM or Meteor. Just delete base gasket for 190-200 psi. 357 is a hell of a saw, especially ported.

 

[XP_Slinger]

OEM or Meteor. Just delete base gasket for 190-200 psi. 357 is a hell of a saw, especially ported.

Hell yes it is!

 

[Wolverine]

Great pics. Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't buy the lil red barn one.... unless it was a very very hard (near impossible) application.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Nice comparison, thanks for taking the time.

Plus 1

 

[cuinrearview]

I've tried a LRB VEC piston for a Dolmar 5105/5100s. The only reason I used it is because they're less than half of OEM and most of the time the economics of re-building one of those is very much not in our favor. The skirts are narrower but the rest of the dimensions were similar enough to OEM. I can reccomend that particular piston from them. If Meteor was available or even if OEM was under $50 I wouldn't think twice. If you want more compression measure your squish then send the jug out to be dropped. More expensive but there are some other gains with that route.

 

[dustinwilt68]

I think my ported 357 is blowing around 220, I have 2 more to port yet. I love these saws!

 

[Spike60]

Reply from lil red barn:

View attachment 210365

Hmmm. I don't know about that. Unless there's more than one piston supplier in India, this might be a bogus claim. And this is the sort of thing you run into with pistons that are re-boxed as the LRB stuff is. Same as Tilton was doing with their Mako brand. I get the idea behind building a brand by doing that. But it does kind of cloud the origin of these parts.

The brand from India that I am familiar with is VEC. One source that sells them, in a VEC box, is Northwoodsaw. Have a lot of NLA pistons that are not available anywhere else. Lotta old Jonsered stuff. 49SP, 70E and such. Sal at Northwood sells pistons from Meteor, Espian, and VEC. All clearly identified. I've use the VEC stuff in some of my old Jonnys, and they are a decent piston. Nothing to shy away from.

They also have a nice 920 Super piston. As does LRB. Looks to be the same piston. And the sticker on the LRB box looks identical to that which is on the VEC box. If they are from the same source, that's fine. But why the need for an ego driven claim about "we have the entire United States". I get a bad vibe from that kind of stuff.

 

[Stump Shot]

Hmmm. I don't know about that. Unless there's more than one piston supplier in India, this might be a bogus claim. And this is the sort of thing you run into with pistons that are re-boxed as the LRB stuff is. Same as Tilton was doing with their Mako brand. I get the idea behind building a brand by doing that. But it does kind of cloud the origin of these parts.

The brand from India that I am familiar with is VEC. One source that sells them, in a VEC box, is Northwoodsaw. Have a lot of NLA pistons that are not available anywhere else. Lotta old Jonsered stuff. 49SP, 70E and such. Sal at Northwood sells pistons from Meteor, Espian, and VEC. All clearly identified. I've use the VEC stuff in some of my old Jonnys, and they are a decent piston. Nothing to shy away from.

They also have a nice 920 Super piston. As does LRB. Looks to be the same piston. And the sticker on the LRB box looks identical to that which is on the VEC box. If they are from the same source, that's fine. But why the need for an ego driven claim about "we have the entire United States". I get a bad vibe from that kind of stuff.

I agree. It's a no brainer when there's other options on the table like for the 357xp. It's when you run out of options that a fella should go down the low road. Have to say every time I did have to go there, never had trouble with the pistons, the rings on the other hand did not have near the longevity of the originals. So now I swap out the rings for a better set of good name brand ones and things seem to be okay. Wrist pins seem okay, AM pin bearings not so much, OEM should be used here, also I buy OEM retaining clips as well. This is the best I've been able to do when up against it finding a replacement piston.
While some pistons look crude underneath the saw won't care much about it, and even if the machining is rough on the sides, that will actually hold oil better and have less friction than a smooth one. (Look at the new Wiseco's for inspiration here.) As long as it fits the bore properly it will go up and down just fine. Might have to clean some flash out if it's a windowed design.
My pick for an upcoming 357 build was the Meteor brand.

 

[Spike60]

That's right Steve. Still plenty of options for the 357 since it can still be considered a recent model. For whatever reason, when Husky dropped their cylinder kit prices a few years ago, there was not a corresponding drop in the piston prices. In cases like the 357, the complete kit is only $20 more than the piston. Talk about a no-brainer. So in the Husky world, AM pistons are more significant than complete kits.

But I like to evaluate how things work "out of the box". If you have to add rings, clips, bearings and all, then what's the point of an AM piston? Gotta qualify that by adding that it also depends on the intended use of the saw. For those of us that just cut for ourselves, and split that saw time among a dozen or more saws, then a basic $5 piston will work fine. It's not like your going to wear it out. But anything going to a pro guy who's going to use it a lot, the whole top end ought to be OEM. But if it can't be, at least the buyer should know what he's getting, which I've found is rarely the case from the many over priced Craig's list saws that guys come in with that were "totally rebuilt". But that's an essay for another time. LOL

For some of the old stuff where the options are limited, Northwood has been a a great source. www.northwoodsaw.com for anyone who wants to check it out. In addition to some of the old Jonsered models I mentioned, they have some interesting NLA Husky pistons as well. Got a VEC piston here for my 285CD from them. Think they have the L77/480 piston also? Not sure what's there for the Stihl guys.

 

[Stump Shot]

If you have to add rings, clips, bearings and all, then what's the point of an AM piston?

This is when your original piston is junk and nla, and you are trying to build a solid hi performance saw for a fella that still wants to use it, for numerous different reasons that a different saw just won't do.
So then it's time to get creative with what you can find or still have.
It's not necessarily what you might have wanted going in, but what you come out the other side with that counts here, a happy saw and more importantly a happy saw owner.
The 2100CD comes to mind here as an example.

 

[dustinwilt68]

It's a shame there is no AM version of the 2100 made by someone reputable, like meteor or hyway.

 

[XP_Slinger]

I think my ported 357 is blowing around 220, I have 2 more to port yet. I love these saws!

Welcome to the club

 

[dustinwilt68]

Best sub 60cc saw made imo

Welcome to the club

 

[Derf]

Best sub 60cc saw made imo

I’m torn between a 254 and 357 for that title.

 

[XP_Slinger]

I’m torn between a 254 and 357 for that title.

Win win between those two, both are light, nimble and have great power. I’m keeping both

 

[Spike60]

This is when your original piston is junk and nla, and you are trying to build a solid hi performance saw for a fella that still wants to use it, for numerous different reasons that a different saw just won't do.
So then it's time to get creative with what you can find or still have.
It's not necessarily what you might have wanted going in, but what you come out the other side with that counts here, a happy saw and more importantly a happy saw owner.
The 2100CD comes to mind here as an example.

Yeah, I get it. Try and improve what you're working with and get it closer to OEM.

Pretty sure Northwood has a 2100 piston. VEC.

Although they don't claim to have the entire United States as an exclusive territory from a "private" piston manufacturer. How can it be a private manufacturer unless you actually own the plant? LOL

Sorry guys, not trying to derail things here, but I just don't trust outfits that make unsubstantiated boasts like that.