325 chains.. is this just how they are? Or is something wrong?

[Steve]

Not enough hook + your using semi chisel which won’t cut as fast as chisel. Throw away that dumb guide and freehand it is the best thing I ever did learning to hand file. Use a raker guage. Look up buckin billy ray on youtube and check out some of his hand filing videos. Your gonna get 100 different opinions on chain filing, but this should steer you in the right direction.

Buckin has helped me get where i am now with filing. I used one of those 2n1 guides and threw it away. Just didnt get the results i was wanting. Here is what mine look like after filing.

 

[Steve]

View attachment 155734.

That almost looks like the raker file is getting the tooth.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Put a straight edge across the tips of two teeth, then measure to the tip of the raker with a feeler gauge. That will give you some idea where the tool is taking you.

File diameter is a huge concern. Something could be mixed up there and causing the no hook condition.

.325 can be filed to cut like you are used to on your other saws

 

[rumatt]

I hit it again with 10 more passes with the 2-1, and it change the profile significantly. It looks more hooky to the eye than in this picture, but you can see how it's much more of a single arc.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the first sharpen needs to be a big (and careful) one.

I will also check out the Buckin' videos.

Thanks very much everyone.

 

[jakethesnake]

It’s semi chisel. That’s all. Nah .325 can really go fast

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Here is some hook. Maybe too much?

 

[Steve]

I hit it again with 10 more passes with the 2-1, and it change the profile significantly. It looks more hooky to the eye than in this picture, but you can see how it's much more of a single arc.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the first sharpen needs to be a big (and careful) one.

I will also check out the Buckin' videos.

Thanks very much everyone.

 

[merc_man]

Best advise i can give is toss the training wheels ( 2 in 1 file) and learn to do it free hand. Get a new chain so you can study the profile and try to imitate these edges on your dull chain. Once you get on to it you can play arond with how much hook you like and definately get a file guage of some sort for the rakers.
Me personally i have a good hook and take my rakers down past the top of tje guage by about three passes. This is good for hard wood such as ash oak hickory etc.
It is a little to agressive for soft maple type wood but does work good.
In ash which i mainly cut the chain will pretty much self feed. Chain i use is oregon full chissel on a echo cs 520.

This works for me. Maybe not others.


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[Tpagel]

Like others said, it looks like your round file is too big.
Maybe mic the round file?

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[J. Loe]

Good ole buckin....

What can’t he do?

Be kind.

 

[Tpagel]

Good ole buckin....

What can’t he do?

Be kind.

Yep
Hey Joel did you get the 357?

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[Basher]

4.8, but they measure 6.5mm in my micrometer
View attachment 155737

The files are too big of diameter, 3/16 or 4.8 mm is what you want for .325 chain.

 

[Philbert]

I am not a big fan of the 2-in-1 file guides, but a lot of people like them; everyone has to find something that works for them.

I do, however, like the consistency that file guides provide. I like the basic guides, which hold the file at the correct height, and help you keep a consistent top plate angle, but let you choose a different angle if you choose. For example, if you want to file at 25° for the oak you are cutting, you can mark that angle on the guide with a scratch awl and a protractor (or a piece of tape).
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/filing-tools/fileguide/

These basic guides also let you adjust your depth gauges separately, for your type of cutting, wood, saw, etc., rather than fixing it at a specified height.

If you really want to get sharp and consistent cutters, the Granberg type file guides are a good option:
https://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint-low-profile/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Philbert

 

[rumatt]

The files are too big of diameter, 3/16 or 4.8 mm is what you want for .325 chain.

Sorry, that was a typo. They measure 4.65 on my micrometer.. the files are the right size.

 

[rumatt]

I took a whole bunch more passes with the 2-1, and the hook just keeps getting better.

Here's what was happening: the 2-1 was simply holding the file too damn high. With the file too high, it was flattening the top of the hook. See the figure below I created to explain what was happening.



Now.. why was it too high? Yet kept improving the more I filed? I'm not entirely sure. One theory is that you should never take more than 1 or 2 strokes per cutter with the 2-n-1 file. It's vertical position is held by the adjacent cutters, so if they haven't been lowered yet, you are repeatedly cutting in at the wrong height.

Whatever the reason, I'm fully sold on ditching these 2-1's and hand filing.

 

[rumatt]

I do, however, like the consistency that file guides provide. I like the basic guides, which hold the file at the correct height, and help you keep a consistent top plate angle, but let you choose a different angle if you choose. For example, if you want to file at 25° for the oak you are cutting, you can mark that angle on the guide with a scratch awl and a protractor (or a piece of tape).
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/filing-tools/fileguide/

These basic guides also let you adjust your depth gauges separately, for your type of cutting, wood, saw, etc., rather than fixing it at a specified height.

If you really want to get sharp and consistent cutters, the Granberg type file guides are a good option:
https://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint-low-profile/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Thanks very much Philbert. I will look into all of these.

I sharpen knives and appreciate the insanely sharp edge that a guide can help you achieve. I like the idea of applying that to chainssaw chains, which was partly why I went for the 2-1 in the first place.

In the thread you linked, I noticed you mentioned you got rid of your granberg file guide after you got a grinder. Do you do all your sharpening with that now? I thought folks who know how to sharpen by hand tend to poo-poo grinder results.

 

[J. Loe]

Here’s the thing, with round file hand filing, especially on hard ass stihl chains, you need a sharp file.
If the file’s dull you’re pushing too hard and your angles get off.

The top and side chrome won’t flake off, it’ll end up curling under, then yer *f-worded.

I don’t know how often you swap out the files on that 2in1 but I can’t imagine it’s as often as you should.

Billy Ray has a ton of videos and there’s a lot to get through, but you’ll learn a lot if you can maintain your attention span.
Be Kind.

On semi chisel chain there’s a lot of support for the cutting edge and it’s a bit more forgiving to sharpen.
With full chisel or square ground it really comes down to your corner.
That’s the money maker.

There’s a ton of filing info at Madsens and it seems really well thought out unlike this rambling post.
http://www.madsens1.com/muu_barchain.htm

 

[J. Loe]

Also I got Homelite410’s filing vise from definitive Dave’s eBay store and it helps a ton.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Husq...3-8-325-404-/221893820293?hash=item33a9e6ff85
Gave up on the granberg quite a while ago.

 

[rumatt]

Not to start a grinder-vs-hand filing debate, but.........

I have an Oregon 620 grinder that I impulse-bought 2 weeks ago, still new in the box. I was going to return it because I was having a hard time justifying it, thinking hand results would be better. Maybe I should learn to use it and give it a shot instead of all these file guides?

I know that hand filing will produce more of a razor edge, and that makes sense for a knife. But for a cutter that's flying through hardwood, that paper-thin edge is gone in seconds. I would think getting the cutter shape right (and consistent!) is more important, and a grinder is pretty decent at that.

 

[rumatt]

Also I got Homelite410’s filing vise from definitive Dave’s eBay store and it helps a ton.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Husq...3-8-325-404-/221893820293?hash=item33a9e6ff85
Gave up on the granberg quite a while ago.

I'm not seeing what I do with that thing.

Tried searching but came up empty because it doesn't have a unique name to search on.