I Need Some Chaps

[~WBF]

No manufacture has ever said that leg protection will ensure that you won't be cut? They are to minimize injury. Seems to be a big misconception about that.
The ASTM F 1897 is the lowest pro standard. The test meets 3,300 FPM threshold.
It dosen't meet EU, Aus, NZ or worksafe B.C. standards.
A 7 tooth 3/8 sprocket runs about 5000 fpm at 12,000rpm. 3300 fpm is 16.8 m/s
The new 572 runs 29.3 m/s. Add another 12.5% for an 8T. They also keep the trigger on at test speeds, in this case 3300 fpm
Having said that..The 6 layer chaps are fine as when the chaps get caught in the loose material then the teeth will yank the material away from the leg and then jam the chain down by the dogs. Sometimes you have to take the bar off to get the chaps out. Sometimes the clutch also in order to clean off the shaft.
Pants are different as they pull into the body and not away. Tight material VS cutting loose material. It is like cutting loose string with scissors vs pulling the material tight. If you come in contact across the knee with the knee bent then there's a really good change of being cut especially if you don't let go of the trigger instantly or with square chisel. I was with a friend in 1992 that cut most of the way through the bone under the knee cap. The pants were new that day when 3150 fpm were legal. I'm thinking he froze on the trigger doing a one handed back hand while falling a Pine. The saw was 37.7cc (377 Shindiawa)
My felling partner got 18 stitches across a bent knee in a pair of Pfaners pants a few yrs back with square chisel chain.
I have put a few teeth in my knee about three times. Once through new 4100 fpm pants. Usually it just pinches the skin.
I wouldn't worry about an electric saw with chaps . It will still jam up the chain.
The key is to take your finger of the trigger.

 

[3browns]

No manufacture has ever said that leg protection will ensure that you won't be cut? They are to minimize injury. Seems to be a big misconception about that.


The key is to take your finger of the trigger.

Yup, they are not a guarantee and I'm aware of that

I just thought it was amazing that an electric saw could be "more dangerous" (my interpretation)

Finger OFF the trigger you say?

=

 

[~WBF]

Yup, they are not a guarantee and I'm aware of that

I just thought it was amazing that an electric saw could be "more dangerous" (my interpretation)

Finger OFF the trigger you say?

=

Just saying, quicker you break throttle, the less it's going to cut through. Sounds like captain obviously stuff but things happen in a panic to some people or in certain positions as in the case with my buddy and the one handed backhand.
Believe me, it's hard to let go of a trigger on a backbar with one hand when you run the tip into your undercut. The instinct is to gain control.
That's why we have saftey rules.
The saw usually runs a lot more FPM than what the chaps/pants are tested with so getting off the trigger before it clogs may be the difference. Especially when the material is tight to the leg as mentioned above with the pants in the knee area.
I personally have no fear of being cut with chaps even if they are home owners because there will be a gap pulled between the chaps and the your leg.
Having said that, I use pants professionally

Yes, your interpretation above in regards to electric saws
My interpretation below is what I wrote today on another site, then I found a few videos that I will include for discussion.
________________
"I think the issue is there in no pro test design.
Testing would be for 2 stroke hand held equipment with a clutch. Therefore the same test cannot be used, would be my guess.
All testing in NA,EU,NZ & Aus are all professional threshold tests other than one I believe. It was designed for professional use at the time though but is now a homeowner (2,700 fpm)
There is simply no professional test.
I don't think you are going to see a warning about electric saws on chaps that don't have any professional rating?...as explained above that they would be kicked out of the test on a technically. Hence the warnings on certified chaps with electric saws"

 

[~WBF]

 

[~WBF]

Go to the 4:20 mark.
to see the Electric test.
They show the damage that the 036 did in the video also. No comparison at all.

 

[~WBF]

They were pressed down over the log probably at more than 5000 fpm.
Keep in mind that the 6 layer chaps are generally tested at 3300fpm
The approach may be similar to real testing but not reality.
I thought they did really good considering they are likely not an approved garment.
I would be good with them

 

[3browns]

Just saying, quicker you break throttle, the less it's going to cut through. Sounds like captain obviously stuff but things happen in a panic to some people or in certain positions as in the case with my buddy and the one handed backhand.
Believe me, it's hard to let go of a trigger on a backbar with one hand when you run the tip into your undercut. The instinct is to gain control.
That's why we have saftey rules.
The saw usually runs a lot more FPM than what the chaps/pants are tested with so getting off the trigger before it clogs may be the difference. Especially when the material is tight to the leg as mentioned above with the pants in the knee area.
I personally have no fear of being cut with chaps even if they are home owners because there will be a gap pulled between the chaps and the teeth.
Having said that, I use pants professional

Yes, your interpretation above in regards to electric saws
My interpretation below is what I wrote today on another site, then I found a few videos that I will include for discussion.
________________
"I think the issue is there in no pro test design.
Testing would be for 2 stroke hand held equipment with a clutch. Therefore the same test cannot be used, would be my guess.
All testing in NA,EU,NZ & Aus are all professional threshold tests other than one I believe. It was designed for professional use at the time though but is now a homeowner (2,700 fpm)
There is simply no professional test.
I don't think you are going to see a warning about electric saws on chaps that don't have any professional rating?...as explained above that they would be kicked out of the test on a technically. Hence the warnings on certified chaps with electric saws"

WBF

I apologize if I sounded snarky or ungrateful for the excellent information you posted

I am very grateful; I just tend to be a smart @$$ at times

And although as you say, some of it is Captain Obvious stuff, I think at times that approach is warranted

Like the "I am only going out to cut this one limb, or this small bush, or test my carb adjustment, and I don't need PPE" situation

I would say its a good bet that the majority, if not all, of us have done it at one time or the other

There are threads on this and other forums showing horrendous injuries by otherwise well intentioned individuals

They make us think and make us sober up to the possibilities and we are careful for a while and then its back to the "I'm only gonna ..." scenario

For those who strap on chaps or climb into pants each and every time I apologize in advance for my remarks

Thanks as well for the excellent videos you posted, they are very informative

 

[Finnrpm]

European standard in a nutshell: https://sip-protection.com/en/technical/standards#381-5

At the moment i have two of these

Planning to "upgrade" to class 3 with these https://sip-protection.com/en/p/1rx3a2pas
RV

 

[3browns]

European standard in a nutshell: https://sip-protection.com/en/technical/standards#381-5

At the moment i have two of these
View attachment 210597 View attachment 210599 View attachment 210600 View attachment 210601
Planning to "upgrade" to class 3 with these https://sip-protection.com/en/p/1rx3a2pas
RV

That's a lot of good information

It goes a long way towards explaining why most chainsaw videos from UK/Europe show cutters dressed in PPE from head to toe

It is interesting to me how the spec for the wrap of the protection panels in pants type A and B is biased towards a right handed cutter

Thanks

 

[Rob Stafari]

That's a lot of good information

It goes a long way towards explaining why most chainsaw videos from UK/Europe show cutters dressed in PPE from head to toe

It is interesting to me how the spec for the wrap of the protection panels in pants type A and B is biased towards a right handed cutter

Thanks

They design the protection around how the saws are designed. The majority of the world is using saws set up for right hand cutting. Even people with wrap handles are cutting with them right handed the majority of the time.

I have the labonville full wrap and some clogger zeros. If I am going to be at it all day I throw on the pants. They are far cooler while on, and the temptation not to put the chaps on for 'just one cut' is completely removed.

 

[3browns]

They design the protection around how the saws are designed. The majority of the world is using saws set up for right hand cutting. Even people with wrap handles are cutting with them right handed the majority of the time.

I have the labonville full wrap and some clogger zeros. If I am going to be at it all day I throw on the pants. They are far cooler while on, and the temptation not to put the chaps on for 'just one cut' is completely removed.

I guess you are right

When I stop and think about it I have never seen a picture or video of someone cutting left handed even with a full wrap

Another senior moment I guess

 

[Rob Stafari]

I've seen my left handed friend attempting to use his ms391 with a half wrap handle left handed. I promptly told him to put the saw down and tried to explain to him what was going to happen in the event of a kickback with the saw held like that. He didn't really get it so he's not allowed to use a saw when I'm around any more.

 

[3browns]

Got a good buy on a pair of Hooski Technical Wrap chaps

I am impressed with the fit and features

Overall lighter than my Labonvilles back in Alaska

Hope I never need them

 

[Cloggerpro]

They were pressed down over the log probably at more than 5000 fpm.
Keep in mind that the 6 layer chaps are generally tested at 3300fpm
The approach may be similar to real testing but not reality.
I thought they did really good considering they are likely not an approved garment.
I would be good with them

I work for Clogger in NZ and I definitely agree that testing chaps when strapped to a log is not a good replication of real life conditions. A. You never have them strapped to your leg as tight as people strap them to a log and B. Your leg is a lot softer than a log. Both points make a surprising amount of difference to how chainsaw protection actually works.
We have a test rig at clogger that can replicate all the different standards from across the world for chainsaw protection. If it would be of interest in could make a video showing how and why testing is conducted the way it is.

 

[3browns]

I work for Clogger in NZ and I definitely agree that testing chaps when strapped to a log is not a good replication of real life conditions. A. You never have them strapped to your leg as tight as people strap them to a log and B. Your leg is a lot softer than a log. Both points make a surprising amount of difference to how chainsaw protection actually works.
We have a test rig at clogger that can replicate all the different standards from across the world for chainsaw protection. If it would be of interest in could make a video showing how and why testing is conducted the way it is.

Heck yeah, make a video

Awesome

And welcome to the forum!!!

 

[Philbert]

I need feedback on buying a new pair of chaps
I noticed Archerplus has chaps that they say are made in Canada by the largest maker in North America yada yada
Anyone have any experience with them?

The Archer distributor told me that they are manufactured by the same company that makes Husqvarna chaps for the US market (they can be different in different countries, due to different standards). Only available in one size. Could be a good value if they fit.

. . . Cloggers are much lighter and cooler than anything else out there. They also have good customer service and will do custom sizes, embroidery, etc.

I was about to comment, but @Cloggerpro would have better information on these.
https://goclogger.com/

Look at the warning in BLUE at the bottom of the attached pic . . . While I have no plans to buy an electric saw I thought I would post this so more of you have this info on hand in case anyone asks for a recommendation . . . I looked at Labonville and Husqvarna and I didn't see a similar warning

There is a difference between corded electric saws (up to 220V!) and battery-powered electric saws. As I understand it, the US chaps test standard is based on gas (2-cycle) saws, so electric saws cannot by definition pass. Many of the battery saws have overload circuits that stop the chain when they contact the protective fibers in chaps.

I did an informal demonstration / test a few years ago at at GTG, and the fibers jammed up the guide bar nose sprocket, stopping the chain on my Oregon 40V saw. There are other videos on YouTube, with different battery chainsaws and different chaps, with the same result.

***Of course, this does not mean that all chaps will stop all saws - battery, electric, or gas ***

This is the information on the STIHL website (they manufacture corded and battery-powered chainsaws, as well as chaps):
'WARNING FOR CORDED ELECTRIC AND BATTERY CHAINSAW USERS! The fibers may not stop the sprocket on most corded electric chainsaws and some battery-powered chainsaws because of the constant high torque. However, to reduce the severity of injury from accidental contact with the chain, STIHL recommends that leg protection be worn when operating these types of chainsaws.'

Philbert

 

[3browns]

The Archer distributor told me that they are manufactured by the same company that makes Husqvarna chaps for the US market (they can be different in different countries, due to different standards). Only available in one size. Could be a good value if they fit.



Philbert

I was seriously considering them but I wanted full wrap lowers so I passed

I have some hours in my new Hooski chaps and am liking them more and more based on the fit mostly

The pockets are nice and I have to assume the chaps will mitigate damage as well as others

By contrast my Labonvilles always felt clunky, bulky, and ill fitting

At the same time I felt like I was wearing the best protection I could possibly get

I still feel that way about Labonville

 

[Terry Syd]

I went with the full wrap lowers. Yes, in the summer in Oz it can be rather hot, but then I also cut wearing shorts at that time.

It is a LOT cooler to be wearing shorts and having the air circulate around your bare legs, while keeping the protection - and when you take a break, you can take off the chaps.

EDIT: A few years ago it was a hot day and I pulled out an old pair of swimming shorts. They had the nylon mesh for the crotch and were light fitting. It was the coolest outfit I wore during the summer. - I don't know what happen to them, been looking for a few years, might have to buy another pair of swimming shorts.

 

[3browns]

I went with the full wrap lowers. Yes, in the summer in Oz it can be rather hot, but then I also cut wearing shorts at that time.

It is a LOT cooler to be wearing shorts and having the air circulate around your bare legs, while keeping the protection - and when you take a break, you can take off the chaps.

EDIT: A few years ago it was a hot day and I pulled out an old pair of swimming shorts. They had the nylon mesh for the crotch and were light fitting. It was the coolest outfit I wore during the summer. - I don't know what happen to them, been looking for a few years, might have to buy another pair of swimming shorts.

Lots of guys in Hawaii cut in swim shorts...

Unfortunately that's all they cut in; shorts, T shirt, and frequently "slippahs" (flip flops)

Standing on ladders trimming and limbing, etc

Textbook YouTube fodder

I just go the other way real fast because I don't want to see it when it all goes wrong

The Asplundh crew contracted by the county is always in full kit but they are the rare exception

Yikes

 

[Philbert]

I have some hours in my new Hooski chaps and am liking them more and more based on the fit mostly . . .

Fit and comfort are important. If they are uncomfortable, you will find all kinds of reasons not to wear them.

Philbert